317: Sounding Professional Doesn't Mean Generic, Boring, Or "Overproduced" - Domi Schreiber (MyKungFu)

Can your music sound professional without becoming generic, boring, or overproduced?

That tension is the main theme of this conversation with Domi Schreiber, the Swiss artist behind MyKungFu.

Domi has a very specific artistic taste. He likes warm, organic, slightly imperfect productions with unusual textures, sparse arrangements, and a strong emotional identity. But for a long time, sounding different from other artists made him wonder whether his music simply wasn’t good enough. 

In this episode, we talk about the difference between sounding professional and sounding polished into sameness.

Domi shares how he developed his own sonic identity, why he prefers character over perfection, and how learning the technical side of recording and mixing gave him more creative freedom instead of less.

We also talk about unusual instruments and textures, working with real studio musicians, keeping imperfections that add emotion, building a live show that feels different from the studio recordings, and learning to promote your own music without handing everything over to someone else. 

In this episode:

• Why professional doesn’t have to mean generic
• The difference between polished and overproduced
• Finding your own sonic identity
• Why sounding different can feel uncomfortable
• Keeping warmth and character in your productions
• Knowing when imperfections make a song better - and when they make it worse
• Why sparse arrangements can be more powerful
• Using unusual sounds and non-traditional instruments
• Learning the technical side without losing creativity
• Working with other musicians while protecting your vision
• Translating studio productions into interesting live performances
• Why self-recording can give artists more freedom
• Learning music promotion and advertising as an independent artist
• Why finishing and releasing matters more than chasing perfection

Domi was also a member of The Self-Recording Syndicate and worked with us through 1-on-1 coaching to improve his recording, mixing, and production skills while staying true to the sound he wanted to create. 

If you’ve ever worried that making your music sound more professional might also make it sound less like you, this episode is for you.

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If this episode helps you, we’d really appreciate it if you left a rating/review or shared it with another self-recording artist. It helps us reach more musicians, invite exciting guests and keep the podcast going.

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For links to everything we've mentioned in this episode, as well as full show notes go to:

theselfrecordingband.com/317

Domi / MyKungFu:

mykungfumusic.com

patreon.com/mykungfu

MyKungFu on Spotify

MyKungFu on Apple Music

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🚀 Want our personal help with your next project?

If you want feedback on your songs, your arrangements, your recordings, or your mixes…

…followed by a clear plan to build your skills, confidence and turn your demos into finished releases...

...plus the professional guidance to implement it all:

👉 Apply for coaching:

theselfrecordingband.com/coaching

We’ll listen to your music, create a custom plan for you, and help you execute it step by step.

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If you have any questions, feedback, topic ideas or want to suggest a guest, email us at: podcast@theselfrecordingband.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Exploring new sounds, finding, you know, new unique textures, doing something that hasn't been there before is kind of hard. You you know, you always feel like there everything has already been done. And um, but there are still artists who kind of make that work and who always try to push, you know, uh, you know, the creative boundaries and like blend electronic stuff with acoustic instruments and real drums and electronic drums and all those kinds of things, and also, you know, trying to put their own unique sonic identity on it. And that's something I'm really, really interested in, and that gets me excited. And today we are here with one of those artists. Um, his name is Domi Schreiber, he's from Switzerland. The artist's name is Mike Kung Fu. And I've been working with him inside of our coaching program, the Self-Recording Syndicate. And uh Domi has made music for a long time. He's a great musician with a great taste and great ear. And he wanted to produce himself because of mainly, and maybe I'm wrong here, we're going to talk about that, but mainly because of his very specific vision and the need to or the the urge to have like creative control over that and learn the ins and outs of the entire creative process of record making. And um I think that in the beginning, the technical part, as for many creatives, has been a little bit of a hurdle because Dummy's a very strong creative mind. And now I think though, he has totally mastered this part of making record as well. And I think um he maybe even learned to enjoy it. And I'm I'm really, really excited about the songs that I've heard from him. Like I said, great taste, great ear, great unique styles. We're gonna talk about all of that, and I'm super happy to have him on the podcast today and to introduce him to you. So, welcome, Domi. Welcome to the self-recording band podcast, and thank you so much for taking the time to be here today.

SPEAKER_00 1:44

Wow, thank you. You're welcome. It's a pleasure for me.

SPEAKER_02 1:49

Yep. Um as always, I'm not doing this by myself. I'm here with my friend and co-host, Manel Espinosa. Berenguer, music producer from Spain. Hello, Manel, how are you?

SPEAKER_01 2:00

Hello. Um, I'm great, as always. And as I always say, I'm Manel Espinosa, and I'm a music producer, music producer and mixing engineer from Spain. Always ready to kill your songs and make them sound as bad as possible.

SPEAKER_02 2:18

No, you don't do that for sure.

SPEAKER_01 2:20

I need to to to improvise, you know.

SPEAKER_02 2:24

Yeah, absolutely like kind of mix it up sometime. Um, yeah. If you are new to the show, um, this is the self-recording band podcast. My name is Benedict Tyne. I run the platform theselfrecordingband.com, where we do this podcast and also the coaching that we offer, where we help self-recording musicians make better records from their home studios and jam spaces. Um, I'm a mixing engineer myself. I've been doing this professionally for more than 15 years. I run a mixing studio called Outback Recordings, where we work on a lot of songs each year. And on this podcast, we're bringing in people that we've worked with, people from the music industry, other perspectives, different styles, approaches, all of that, so we can all learn from that and get better every single day or every single week with the show. So welcome if you're new. If you are a returning listener, welcome back. Always glad to have you. And if you're discovering this on a podcast app, please know that there's a YouTube version that you can actually watch. And vice versa, if you're discovering the YouTube version, you can take us with you in your earbuds when uh you know you listen to this on Spotify or Apple uh podcasts or wherever you enjoy podcasts. So let's get to this episode. Domi. I hope what I said in the introduction kind of resonates or sounds true. If not, please correct me. Um I have the feeling that what you are doing is not cookie cutter at all. It is pretty different from a lot of other artists, and it was part of the main, you know, the part of the journey was to explore what your sonic kind of identity actually is, um, the the the sound you wanted to create, how to blend, how to blend the different, you know, uh instruments and textures that you use in your songs, um, and to figure out a way for you to be able to do that yourself. But maybe for our audience, explain a little bit, you're like your musical background, what your music sounds like or what you want it to sound, uh, what you what my kung fu is all about.

SPEAKER_00 4:12

Well, um, yeah, I started as a as a guitarist. I'm still a guitarist. Um, but when I was young, I was totally fascinated by the guitar, you know, all Josatrianis and Steve Weiss and Richie Cotsons and Paul Gilbert. They were all like really catching my my attention. And um so I went uh I went that role for a long time. So I was practicing like eight, nine hours a day while I was uh um uh working, you know, as as as when I was like 20 or 25 years old, I was always practicing like hell, but I I could never reach the reach the speed or I reached the level of those guitarists. And and uh then I started to become a fan of Toto. Like Steve Lukater was a big influence, and I even had his signature guitar and everything, so I was a total creep, a total freak as well. It all changed when when um when I discovered the Radiohead in 1997. So that the album Okay Computer totally changed my my path. I was uh for a year or so I could only listen to that to that record. It it totally blew me away. And somehow I I I switched, I switched over to a total different area of music. And um so but I still had my the skills, you know. I wasn't a uh a fantastic guitar, but I couldn't play really fast, which is not interesting anymore, anyway, for me. But uh I had uh I had skills, you know, I had chops. Uh and I was uh really I I was safe on the guitar. I could some I had something to hold on to on stage, and I started singing as well. Uh really, I was really timid, and I had a lot of really great people around me. I was lucky all the time. That's my my point of view. Uh I started to to play in a in a rock band in Switzerland called uh High N O. Um and we were playing gigs in Germany as well with a German band called Banana Fishbones. Uh really? We yeah, we were on tour with them for about uh for a few weeks.

SPEAKER_02 6:14

That's a pretty big band, or used to be a pretty well-known band. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:17

Yeah. They're still around, and the singer Sebastian Horn is a good friend of mine. He's uh the godfather of one of my daughters. And uh wow. Yeah, there was really a there was a friendship, you know, starting to to develop. And uh I I I was meeting the guys, I was I was going to their concerts every year in uh in uh in Bad Holtz. They had this Christmas concerts, huge 400 people, four nights uh sold out, and it was always like a happening there. I was there every year. Oh, wow. And uh so from that, uh you know, I shared this kind of music, this kind of experience, uh this songwriting experience I shared with all those people. And uh I was singing background vocals in the band, I was playing a little little keyboard, I had a June 060, you know, there in the band. It's what what a great experience, what a great synth for for a beginner. You know, I never heard a synth before. You know, I had all these people where I could like uh like copy them. I had the guy who was making like the promotion and and and all the the talking to the managers, and I watched him really closely. I had the bass player who was the producer as well, and I watched him a lot. He helped me develop my own my first own ideas about 15 years ago. And um, so I I had all these people where I could where I could learn a lot from. And um and yeah, and Radiohead just drove me in in that kind of direction where uh and and I somehow I felt how to say uh they felt like family to me in a musical sense. I I wouldn't compare myself to them, but I felt at home when I listened to their music and I I felt that I had the same kind of emotion in inside of me. And I was totally um thrilled by their how how they actually played their concerts and how they recorded their albums, and that that that totally attracted me. Uh, you know, the guitarist was playing drums as well, you know, like like like big big drums on the stage and and and and and he was playing keyboards and he was playing with the s with the with the with the bow and and they had these kind of strange instruments on stage. And yeah, somehow I connected to to that way of thinking. Oh interesting.

SPEAKER_02 8:28

And uh okay, yeah, yeah, go ahead. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 8:30

I mean, in a way, I was then attracted to I always felt that when you play a guitar uh through an amp, it doesn't matter what that what guitar and what amp that is, uh you can compare yourself to all guitarists in the world, you know. So it's uh there's an electric guitar and then an electric guitar amp, and it all sounds somehow it's gonna sound the same. But when I have my my little Hermes baby typewriter or my my my my little uh cooking devices that I could use and record, I I would I would create something unique. And maybe, you know, maybe hit hit that cupboard in the back or or maybe hit something else that that produces a sound that that's unique and that's um that that's something that attracted me very very much.

SPEAKER_02 9:16

That's really that's really cool. I remember Manel did did or maybe still does similar things like recording samples of weird, you know, um stuff that is not actually an instrument, but then turning it into an instrument or a percussive element. So that's super interesting you say that too. And it's also interesting to me that you came from like you said, you're a guitar player, and then you discovered Radiohead, which is also a rock band, um, but then it you kind of discovered other elements too, and and elect the electronic side of things as well. So it the beginning of your story sounded like a typical rock thing, rock journey, but now when I listen to your music, it's you know, there's some songs with like real drums, there's some songs with electronic drums, there is these samples or sounds that you create, there's um synth stuff in there. So you went you didn't go all the way in the rock direction, you kind of found your own style later, and it's also a lot more mellow and a little softer than like the the rock band stuff as well. Like it's not a full-blown, you know, heavy rock thing at all. So kind of interesting that you came from this more heavy rock kind of background, now listening to your songs. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:26

I don't know, maybe maybe as as a child, you know, uh you get influenced by your parents a lot. And my mother was always listening to those those cheesy, cheesy uh sounds, like cheesy songwriters like uh Roger Wittacker. I still love him, you know. He was a South African musician, and then he had he was a great whistler, you know, he had this great whistling melody. He could like like like hell. Um and and he had these songs uh in in in the charts in in Germany, and we had the same charts in Switzerland, and so and and from Nicole, you know, from from the uh the European song contest, so that all those that music that influenced me somehow. So I just took hopefully the best part of that. And and I I think it's an emotional thing, you know, it's not a musical thing in the first place, it's an emotional thing. Um uh how do how you want to express that? And I always had the feeling that people are hesitating to to really present their deepest feelings, you know. It's kind of embarrassing when you when you write nice melodies that you want to sing uh along. And a lot of people just try to destroy it, which is cool. I mean, it's it's it's cool to be cool, you know. Yeah, and uh yeah, it's it's it's a bit more embarrassing to to to play those or to to write those really nice melodies. And I always had a a thing for those melodies. Uh that they just come out somehow, and um I try to stay true to those and and and just present them and and and mix, and somehow I needed to break that that that kind of mood, you know. So um I I don't want to be cool, but there's there's still if if I would go all the way in this direction, it would be really schlapper music, you know, like uh like German uh like um but um I had to break it with some kind of uh with something, you know, so that would be an electric guitar, an acoustic guitar that I would distort on stage, I would play through a uh electric guitar amp, and I would uh play it through a game pedal, and I would use delays and stuff, just just to to give it another kind of uh of mood. You know? Yeah. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:30

And also I feel like you're very intentional with the with your arrangements. They're not like, at least in the songs that I've heard so far, it's not that there are it doesn't sound at least like there are like you know hundreds of of layers there. It's a pretty sparse arrangements. There's a couple of really important pieces. There's usually some sort of bass line, there's some sort of groove, there's a couple of synth or guitar things, and then there's a very strong melody in the vocal, but it's pretty clear, relatively sparse. There's a lot of space in between stuff, and it's not this super dense more is more kind of approach, you know? It's actually a less is more kind of thing. And everything, I feel like when I listen to your music, everything really matters, and that's what I really like. Like every single instrument and every part of the arrangement seems like it's there for a reason and it matters, and and that's really cool because a lot of people, but mainly out of insecurity, try to put as much stuff in there as possible in a in an effort to make it more impressive or to maybe cover up some of the flaws. And in your case, there's not much to hide behind. There's like a few things and everything matters. I don't know if you perceive it the same way, but that's that's what I liked about your music a lot. And and it also is what makes it a bit challenging to produce it as well, because you can hear everything super clearly. And as soon as you go too far with something, it it doesn't sound like it used to sound in the beginning anymore, and you gotta be really careful with all of that. And so I don't know, it's it's it's fascinating to me. So I don't what what are your thoughts on this um when it comes to arranging songs and the elements you put in there and how intentional you are about this?

SPEAKER_00 14:03

Well, there's there's there's two things. Um one thing is uh I actually think that I'm overloading stuff still, and and uh a big part of of what I'm I was doing now for for my new songs I learned from you. So or at least you you put me in the perspective, you know, you gave me the perspective that that it's easier to work with if it's less stuff. And uh um it's always easy to to add, you know. Yeah, and but it's a a lot more fun to take away, I think, and and and and just to find out if that melody is the right melody, if it's the right beat, the right sound. And of course I'm not happy with it. It's uh otherwise I would stop making music. No. The other thing is that um I had the experience that that me sounding different than uh from from the others was a bad thing. So um I always thought I wasn't good enough to sound like the others. And and that that still kind of haunts me in a way. And uh that's really that's going on like honey, you know, when you say that. I appreciate that very much. But it's I think it's it's kind of a strange feeling if if you sound differently from different from the others. Um and I I I'm never sure if it's if it's good or if it's bad, you know. So it's it's it's always on on the edge somehow, and and that's that's probably keeping me going. That feeling is keeping me on the on the track to find the right sounds and stuff.

SPEAKER_02 15:31

There's two very interesting things in what you said there. First of all, it's like I think when you first of all it takes courage to do something different, be like you said, because um it can feel a bit strange to sound different than everyone else, or to do something different intentionally. So it takes courage to do that. Um the good thing about it is though, if you are doing bold unconventional things, nobody can compare it to anything else. Or it's harder. I mean you can compare, we can always compare it, but it's harder to compare. If you try to sound exactly like band XYZ or you want to fit into a genre, um, you're automatically gonna be prepared uh compared to other things. And it's those types of artists where where people say, well, they kind of sound like band XYZ. And the thing is, if when people start saying that, it always, almost always means they sound like this band, but not quite as good. It's like almost never a good thing if you get compared a lot to other bands, because there's only one original, anyways. And if you get compared a lot, it's usually like a uh uh the the little brother or like a smaller version of the original, you know. And if if it's harder to compare, then some people will like it, others will not. It's maybe it will polarize some more, but at least you cannot say, well, that sounds exactly like this artist, but not as good. So I think it's great to do something that's a little out there and a little different. It's that's one thing. The other thing is um that you said in the beginning, I want to go back to that sentence. You said you're not happy with it yet because otherwise you would stop making music. That's an interesting take there. Does that mean basically if you if you're ever 100% happy with your music, it's kind of the progress would stop and it's it wouldn't be interesting anymore? Or like explain that that sentence a little bit because that's interesting to me.

SPEAKER_00 17:15

I think it's uh it's a mind thing. I'm I'm totally emotionally happy with the song, otherwise I wouldn't like release it. So it if it touches if it's touching me, I I I suppose it it might touch other people too, you know. Um I think I make the music just for myself, uh for the most part. And if it's working for me in that way, then it's working for the others. And I think uh the technical aspect is always uh I of course I feel really insecure, but that's that's why I uh contacted you. Um and uh you did a tremendous, an incredible job, really a really incredible job for me because I I I'm of course I'm not really sure yet, but uh I have I I have a starting point and I have a way to go. And uh I I can compare my stuff like musically uh to other stuff on Spotify, for example, and and and I think it sounds about the same, you know, it's the same, the same uh the game is about the same, the mood is done. I mean, I can rely like like as a producer now, as a self-producer, I can do the stuff that that's needed to release my own my own music. That's what I wanted to say.

SPEAKER_02 18:28

Yeah. And when you say the same, you mean it sounds um uh like you can put it in a playlist and it's not distracting or obviously worse, because again, it doesn't sound the same, but you'd at least you want it to be you don't want that to be like when people listen to a couple of songs and then yours comes up and then everyone's like, oh, that sounds like a demo. Like that's obviously not the case. Um so just to clarify, but uh yeah, it's it's up there, it's at the level of other bands. Whether or not it's whether or not people like it more or less than other artists, that's up to the listener to decide. But at least you can hear it in the context of a longer playlist and it's not gonna sound amateur, you know.

SPEAKER_00 19:03

So exactly. Yeah, that's that's probably the part I'm not really happy with, you know. But but I think when when the song is okay and that the arrangement is okay, it there's no no big difference. That's we talked about that a lot, you know, and uh I think we we're on the same page there.

SPEAKER_02 19:19

Yeah. And it's interesting that you said if you were if you were fully happy with it, you would stop making music, basically. Uh that's interesting to me. So you kind of like the challenge and the the never-ending progress and learning, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 19:31

Yeah, probably.

SPEAKER_02 19:32

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I and I agree, I agree. Like it's always the you know, I hope it sounds always sounds weird, but I said it a couple of times on this podcast as well. Like, I hope that it will always be that I that if if I look back at mixes that I made or productions I made a year ago or two years ago, I hope I will always find things that I would do differently now. Because if I ever look back and I think like that's perfect, there's nothing I would change, then it means I stopped learning or progressing in a way. So I hope that I always look back at old work and be like, yeah, it's cool. I'm proud of it. But also now I think I could do better. And I hope this never stops. You know, it's it you were always learning.

SPEAKER_00 20:07

Yeah, yeah, that's true. I mean, I I even had to re-record a song of mine um just a few weeks ago uh because I wanted to release it and make uh meta ads and stuff, and um I just couldn't handle the voice. Which one was it? Uh my own voice, uh 20 years ago, you know. I I love the song, it's such a beautiful song, and I thought I have to release that again because nobody remembers it. And uh and I I had to re-record it, and and now it's uh now it's okay. So uh even if I didn't realize it, uh I was singing a lot, and as I thought my voice is still the same, but it's it's changed completely. It has a lot more depth, and I don't I know I'm I'm not a classical singer, so uh I cannot compete with with News nor Mariah Carrier. But uh I can I have my probably the same for my music, I have my own timbre, and um that changed a lot, so it's kind of interesting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:02

I have a question. I have a question. Yes. Um with regards to what you guys you both were talking about uh some minutes ago when we talk about you know making music that's different to compared to X or closer to X What defines whenever you think it's good or not? Is it the place that it has on Spotify or interesting question?

SPEAKER_00 21:33

I don't know. Uh it's not the place. I think uh it's isn't it an emotional thing?

SPEAKER_01 21:39

For me it is uh if it's you mean it's comparing to other bands, you mean I guess yeah, that that what I like the the the topic that I want to bring up really is that I feel that sometimes whenever an artist is already you know, it has a lot of exposure already and they do something that's weird uh like sometimes they get this feeling that they are a genius like because they did something different but they had the exposure, right? But then there's there can be someone like you for example who is uh a small artist uh we would say uh that is doing something incredible but just because it doesn't have the same exposure it basically is ignored so like it it really depends on uh who is the person doing that different thing you know that's what I wanted to bring up it's true but I think it has a lot to do with uh with uh promotion as well doesn't it I mean I think I think if uh you're just uh the most famous artist that people know you know uh or the best artist that that that's that's famous.

SPEAKER_00 22:58

I mean there's a lot of good artists and it's not it's not the quality that that gives not normally it's not the sound quality or the song quality that that gives you the exposure it's it's the kind of promotion that you that that brings you forward. And um I would I I mean not it's not the best bands they're the uh you know the most famous bands I think it's it's it's the most the the best promoted bands or the one with the best image or they were lucky they were in a in a kind of a of a good good timeline you know they had they just had the good moment when they came up and and they had quality and then they could stay up there and they probably were nice people as well otherwise nobody would want to work with them anymore. I think it's a it's not the music it's probably a lot of other stuff as well.

SPEAKER_02 23:44

The two the the two go hand in hand. I mean I agree with what you say but I also wanted to put it into perspective for the audience because you need both. One doesn't work without the other I see some people who focus so much on the promotion and the marketing and get really good at this and yes it will get you somewhere if even if the music is kind of mediocre but it will never get you to the top or like to a really sustainable career if the music and the production really sucks. Like you gotta have both. And the other way around there are many artists who do great stuff and have no idea about marketing promotion and they also are not getting where they want to be usually so you kind of need both but if you put all the marketing effort into something that is at the end of the day that doesn't resonate with people it it just it just won't work. You gotta have something there. And that whether or not we like that or whether or not we think it's high quality or whatever doesn't really matter. If it resonates with a lot of people there is something to it there's a lot of popular songs that I personally don't like but I have to give it to them that they figured something out that obviously resonates with people and it's not just the marketing right and so you gotta you you gotta have you gotta have both. And you mentioned you added a third thing actually Domi you said it's it's probably also an advantage to be a good person and to be good to work with there's always the exception of course when people are super polarizing or where kind of the you know this this weird kind of um image works as well where some some people get famous because they're they behave like assholes but I but that's rare. I think in the music industry in general a lot of decisions are made based on how easy to work with people are uh about their social skills, about their communication skills, their work ethic, things like that. If you look into the biographies of successful artists you see almost always that there are super hard workers, that they um are good at communicating and collaborating and there are many more skills to this than what people sometimes see on the like superficial level. So um but yeah it's it's a good question still to ask like what what makes it good compared to other music? And is it only would would it feel even I mean maybe a different angle would be if your music comes up in a playlist next to more famous artists is it still perceived as good if people know that this artist is big and this artist is not so big? Or do people automatically perceive the more famous stuff as better? Like if there's a bias kind of towards it that would be interesting too you know if you don't if you didn't know both and you didn't know how many listeners they have maybe you would evaluate a little differently compared to seeing okay this person has like half a million listeners and this person has like 3,000 maybe you're all automatically biased and think that the one must be better.

SPEAKER_00 26:31

I don't know. I think you are yeah I think you are yeah just one thing um sorry but just one thing about uh stay staying on top or or staying in the business of I mean being nice and stuff is uh I knew a promoter in a club in a big club in Bern, Switzerland and uh I talked to her and um she she told me one thing that really uh stayed with me that in the end af after a show with with the band she goes to the to the crew you know to the lightning crew to to the the back line crew she they all have like a little meeting at the end very light late at night and she just wants to know how it was you know she says how was it with the guys and and if they say oh my god they were a pain in the ass she's not gonna book them if if if if they're not successful you know but if if if they're really if they if they had a great gig and and they're not really big yet and and they say they were so cool and it's really nice they could they can come back anytime the chances are a lot bigger that the band is going to play on at the same menu again even if if the success maybe is not that it's not that big. So that that was a big influence for me as well.

SPEAKER_02 27:40

I mean you don't have to be nice if you don't want to be nice but I think uh you can just this this people around they have jobs they have families so you just try to connect with them and maybe remember their names and that the auntie can say bye bye Andreas and bye Gabriella and I I think that that goes a long way um yeah for me I love that I personally love that I had the exact same experience when we were touring with my band um and yeah period like this is absolutely true and I love that you bring it up and also a funny thing is that if you think about it you are if you are treating the the tech and the the people working around the stage and all these um people trying to do their best to to make it a great evening for everyone if you treat those badly you're you might even sub end up sabotaging yourself because at the end of the day you're all in the same boat. Like everyone wants the same thing for this evening. And I've seen it a couple times on tour where some bands treated the sound people or the the whoever was working there so badly that they kind of if they're super professional they won't care but they're also humans and sometimes they lose a little bit of like interest to do their best job for this band compared to the other band that was really nice. And so you might end up sabotaging yourself because you still rely on those people right and you and so I don't know it's just it's just on a human just personal level I think it's it's great to be like that anyways to just treat people well but then also it's really going to hurt you professionally if you don't and if you develop an ego you know or whatever. Yeah so I'm I love that I I love that story. So that that's really really great. Yeah um let's talk about the the sonic thing just a little bit like we talked about finding your sound and your journey and everything. What one thing I remember a lot from from working with you which I found super interesting and exciting is that there is this balance to get right in your music between you know how do I say this? In my opinion you like to keep things pretty organic and relatively dark and there is a certain emotion in the not so much hyped sound but a more like warm, low mid-range heavy kind of sound that is yeah not overly hyped, not overly bright not overly modern and polished but at the same time it needs to sound professional. So this this whole balance to find between like the dark and organic quote unquote sound versus a modern bright and more polished kind of sound that was really interesting to me and I'd like to go there a little bit and talk about this because the the background story is that I mastered a couple of songs for you and I because I'm so calibrated to this to a degree and of course I have my own taste as well and all that but I I got your mixes. I thought they sounded amazing but I also thought they could be a little more crisp a little more top end a little brighter a little louder and I I did what I would consider relatively subtle moves, moves, but sometimes they were still too far away from where the mix was and then we went back a little bit in a revision until we arrived and I I loved the end result even though it's not as I I I didn't take it as far as I wanted to um but but that was interest an interesting process for me to like find the right balance for your sound specifically and I I would love to hear where this comes from um what it is about that kind of darker warmer sound you really like and why you're you're like seem to be really sensitive to you know compressing things harder making it a little you know too crisp or bright.

SPEAKER_00 31:06

Like I don't know any any thoughts on that I would really appreciate well it has to do with my environment here I think in the first place because I'm in a in a dark place recording. It looks really bright now but it's really dark. So uh it's it's in the cellar cave it's yeah it's it's a man cave yeah yeah and I really feel at home and and the thing is yeah it's it's it it sounds like home for me and and and and it should yeah I mean I don't want to make something sound different than it is so uh maybe that's that's one feeling I have and then I have an history with a good friend of mine who used to uh to mix my songs and to record my songs and it was amazing still is amazing sounds amazing but um the more we worked together the more I I was missing this kind of warm sounding stuff and I thought it would and he was editing all the time he was editing everything he was editing the drums editing the guitars the vocals sometimes the compressor would even even cut out some words that I was singing and he wouldn't realize because he wanted it to be loud and clear and sharp and and um I had to intervene there and and the longer it took I thought my my song sounded cold you know in a way because there was this kind of I don't know some some some stuff was missing some uh maybe noises I thought that he he would he would think there were noises and I I thought no it was it's it's kind of uh how to say it is kind of part of the music you know and um you have a very specific vision that's what I meant in the beginning a very specific taste and vision for your music which why which is why it makes so much sense that you learn to produce yourself because it's not a matter of right or wrong it's just how you perceive your music and it you know yeah the problem is that I I don't have the vision in in a way that I can go go to you know I just hear when it's when it's wrong and and and sometimes I just don't know how to get in in the right place. You know so it's it's I always know when I'm there but I don't know where to find it a lot of times. So that's maybe uh another part why I approached you so to just to find out what what those what the compressor does what the what the re what kind of reverbs there are to to to it to influence the sound so so that my vision gets clearer in a way you know do you feel like it's a little easier for you to do that now?

SPEAKER_02 33:32

Because I've I feel like you can do it. I mean I mean I hear your mixes and even the fact that you know you sent me a mix that you've done and then I master it. And even if I make relatively subtle changes you're like oh no that doesn't really sound like my mix which is absolutely right the right thing to do and I'm and it's just a normal part of the process. But this tells me that you actually develop the skills to get what you want because otherwise you would you wouldn't like your mix as much right you you you like the way you produced it and mixed it. You don't want it to change a lot in mastering when it comes to you know especially when it comes to like a more polished bright kind of crisp sound which means to me you found a way to get the sound that you want to get and I don't know if you'd agree but it but I don't I don't think you're at a spot anymore where you don't you don't know what you're doing. I I think you do. Maybe I don't know how you see it. Do you do you feel like you got better at actually achieving the sound in your head and understanding what the tools do?

SPEAKER_00 34:28

Well I think it's a bit early for that I think I'm I I I made a quite big of a a steep curve and now I'm I'm kind of on my own because you know I'm not part of of of the coaching program I uh uh anymore. Yeah but so I feel a bit um I need to process stuff uh but I have a lot of notes and I I probably have to rely on those so my feeling is has probably not really changed now but I have a lot more knowledge that I can apply and I think I have to go I just take another year now and make my um I mean the the knowledge that I can do it that that I can compete you know like mastering wise and mix-wise with uh I'm I don't want to compete but but it's enough that's that um that gives me a really good good basis for to work on you know so I have that feeling is definitely has changed so I I know that I can do it and I'm not entirely sure how to do it but uh but but I and I had different approaches on the way you know so uh one song was uh I tried this the other song I tried this and I can't even remember what I did exactly so so it's it's kind of of uh half outing in the air but but I think I I yeah I need some more time to grab it but I think I'm on the way there.

SPEAKER_02 35:44

Yeah I mean it's normal there's a lot of insecurity there because like you said it's it's uh only been a pretty short time and you are I mean it's it's a healthy way of looking at it. Like nobody would expect some you know to become absolutely pro and super confident with everything within a couple of months or even a year or so. But again I just want to say that maybe it is also a bit of a confidence thing that you need to build because objectively listening to your stuff and people can make their make up their own mind if you listen to Domi's music the latest release he's put out it sounds really really great and you've done that yourself and um you have the knowledge and the tools to and you the knowledge to use those tools it's just a lot of insecurity and not and still on this journey of finding what you want to do but um but like you said it definitely I I think that you know like it you just said something has changed. I think you know that you're more capable now and I think that there are results that prove that and so the rest is just building confidence find exploring finding keep keep finding your sound and your workflow and um and and practicing some more and also processing all the stuff you've learned like you said because it is a it is a lot that's the other thing it is a lot to learn and it's a lot to process um but yeah I'm I'm you know very excited about about the results and about the fact that you have such a strong taste and this sound in your head that's really important to you and the ability to feel when things are right or wrong to you. I I I think that's a that's something that sets you apart. Yeah that's something that sets you apart from many people I have a lot of people that I work with when I do not not not even inside the coaching but when I do mixes and masters for them where it's easy for me to work with them because I will send back a mix or a master and they'll be like yeah awesome sounds great I'll take that and as cool as that is for me to do that on the first pass sometimes I makes me think like yeah exactly exactly and of course I it's great and it works and everyone's happy and that's awesome. But if if if someone is like paying attention to a lot of details like you did and um and you have this really clear vision and you you just want to make sure that it is a certain way I think that's a good a good thing. And I hope that now please the bands that I'm working with if you're listening please now don't start and sending me like pages of revision requests just because of that what I just said there. It's just an open door response. Yeah exactly exactly no but I hope it comes across what I wanted to say I I think it's good if an artist or a producer that I'm working with has a clear vision for the project knows exactly what they want and is able to communicate that. And also it didn't take you know forever to get there. It's like two or three maybe one or two revisions or whatever which is totally normal. Yeah and so like I'm just saying I I love it when people are trying to do their own thing when they don't care about what everyone else is doing when they don't when they avoid you know um comparing themselves too much when they have a clear vision and are a vision and are willing to communicate that I just love that because the last thing I want is make boring you know generic records. I want to make the artist's record whatever that means and I want them to be happy and if the rest of the world likes it or not who knows anyways we all nobody has a crystal ball and I just like that. And so I long story short I think you're on the still on this journey of exploring your sound and finding your audience and all of that but um I I just hope that over time some some more confidence comes as well because I think you can be really confident about you know the work you're doing.

SPEAKER_00 39:16

Thanks. I mean I'm I'm really impressed with you guys because you work for other people I mean I can do my stuff in my own time you know if it's not okay I just take a break and go and I go work on it a week later. But you guys you you produce for or mix and master for other people and I'm not sure if I could handle it you know because it's uh my taste is so so strong for my own music but I don't know if I could if I could mix or or work for someone that hasn't got my taste or doesn't appreciate the taste that I'm bringing in. How do how do you handle that? And you really have to get outside of yourself to how how do you do that?

SPEAKER_02 39:53

Very interesting question. It's um like I said I I I I mean I can't get rid of my own taste completely like everyone has their own taste and their own filter that everything goes through but I try to the the biggest thing about for me it's it's like is like talking to the artists and listening to them and learning what they want to do, why they want to do it what the songs mean to them what their vision is and then using my knowledge and the tools I have to make that happen. And I'm not precious about what I would do. I just I have fun there's it's fun the the whole challenge of of making it come out of the speakers the way the artist wants to hear it is a lot of fun to me and I can use my knowledge and my tools to accomplish that. And I don't really care at the end of the day if it's what I would do. And I also the funny thing is I tend to still like all the stuff that I do. I wouldn't necessarily listen to all of that as a music fan when the people when the bands come to me. It's not always that I'm like oh yeah this is the best song ever. But in the process of working on it and getting to know the artists and why they want it that way and why what's interesting to them I I I learn to love the songs and then at the end of it I have a different relationship to them. And then sometimes um I'm surprised how much I like a song that I wouldn't have listened to otherwise. It's like I don't know it it's this collaboration this exploring getting to know people what the the behind the music that's really really important to me. And I don't want to be a mixing factory you just you know I just apply the same stuff to everything and just send it back. I want to really understand what the people want and and do my best to get it out there and in the process also reinvent my own approaches all the time. That's kind of how I how I look at it. I don't know about you Manel you produce more and and I I mix all the time with production I think it's even more difficult because if you co-write with people and create the songs with them from scratch. Yeah that's that that's a tough that's tougher in my opinion because what I get is already done in a way and I just have to take it over the finish line you have to develop it and it's there's even more taste and creative decisions involved.

SPEAKER_01 42:04

Well I guess that especially when you are at the very beginning of your production career or whatever you are like you tend to take any project and you quickly learn the kind of artists you want to work with and the kind of artists you don't want to work with. But and it's just a matter of taste like sometimes I've found and I've worked with artists especially at the beginning that and still I I find this situation sometimes artists that uh they say they want to work with you but they've never listened to your song which is kind of weird for me. And you learn to find this balance between uh you know the decisions that you normally take and what the artist wants and of course I right now I only work with artists that I think that I can bring them to their goals right um I don't think it's interesting for me to work with an artist that has a very very different vision about music of course we're never gonna agree on anything right uh but there needs to be a connection isn't it I mean of course yeah unless they come to you because they want the exact opposite of what they would do.

SPEAKER_02 43:30

Sometimes people but that that it's a it a lot of trust is required. I had a couple of situations where people from a completely different genre came to me and said yes we know you work on different stuff but we want you to work on this record because we want to explore something completely different. And then like that can work but then there has to be a lot of trust and and you gotta make sure that they are okay with getting back something that is not what they would want would they would have done right so yeah I mean those guys I guess the good thing is that they are already

SPEAKER_01 44:00

open to uh changes over your your vision. Um so the thing is that once you have that dialed in Domi I think you would be surprised how easier is it to work with someone else someone else's music instead of working on your own music. You know for me at least it's way easier to bring someone else's music to to a good point than doing your own interesting take yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah it's really interesting.

SPEAKER_02 44:38

Speaking of working with others dummy you worked with um a drummer at a studio as well for some of the songs that I've heard um where I and I as far as I remember maybe it was different but as far as I remember there were there are some songs with real drums and the drummer recorded like you didn't record them like the drummer went to a studio or maybe his own studio and recorded drums together to a studio. Yeah and they were tracked there. So what was that like uh because there's uh yet again another person um and and the drums are in an important part of the whole vibe and the groove and everything so um what was that like like did you have someone you already trusted that he would do the the the feel and the groove and everything that you wanted or did you fully say like do your thing and or did you dictate what it would be like and how was that collaboration and then in the whole process of of having a different musician contribute to your record in that way?

SPEAKER_00 45:34

Well I Martin Fisher is his name he's a drummer from um Argau um he's he's just such a tasty drummer you know we can uh I knew him before because uh I once saw him at the gig and then we talked and then he became kind of my drummer as well for concerts and so I played a few gigs with him and and I did one recording with him for an older song called Mercury Rising. And for this I I knew I knew what I expected but we were talking a lot about it. He was coming to my place and we would listen to the songs and I said maybe I need drums there. But that was a really early point because I had this conversation with a producer a friend of mine who has a studio just around the corner and he was kind of the first person who really heard the songs except me and then we were talking about the songs and I and I I didn't know what to do. I just started the coaching with you and I knew I wanted to re to record some drums some rhythm and then we were talking about it and and just outlined some ideas and then we just went into the studio and and I I paid the studio there and I paid the drummer and we just actually just needed to do that you know I I didn't know what what to expect what would would come out of it. And in the end we we recorded seven songs uh and I only used the drums of one song uh everything is uh everything release the hounds the song is called release the hounds it's gonna be my next uh release um that was perfect but the rest was uh you know there was some some small stuff like like a hi-hat that that was too much like uh the snare that would come in too too much it was like I would when I listened to it it was too much so uh I had I talked to him again and then we went to his place he has a a real nice you know a space to to practice and to to record and we had a lot more time and and then we re-recorded it and I was sitting there and I were talking all the time we were talking how about the last take that he was that was playing and then we we changed it and after four five takes we had to write one. It's it's just a feeling you know and that the drum B could be really perfect but it's just just too much just just too much intensity there and then for once only only needed to play bass drum and snare and and the rest was too much. So it it's I I spent so much time with my song so I I had to redo it otherwise I couldn't release it.

SPEAKER_02 47:54

It's uh sometimes it's just uh just the sound of a snare that it's not that's not okay it's too loud it's it's too intense it's the hi-hand is a is should be closed instead of open he shouldn't use you know the uh the brushes instead of the sticks and I I just had I had to change it you know otherwise uh it didn't fit the song I don't know it's it's a feeling yeah it's all about emotion and feeling again like I totally love that um and again how clear you are about about those things it's like uh yeah and and as always we said it so many times on this podcast it's it's a pattern at this point that the great records are oftentimes the combination of a couple of of people coming together and and collaborating and even if it's the self-recording band podcast and whatever very often it's not just that one person there's someone else involved in some way shape or form be it the the coaching we provide or another musician or another mix engineer whatever it it there is if you find the right people and if there's a certain level of trust and and the mutual taste and stuff I I think if almost every project benefits from a little outside perspective.

SPEAKER_00 49:00

Definitely it's so boring to do it all by yourself. So yeah yeah um I don't know maybe it's it's it's the same subject as before uh you know the the cold the coldness or the morals of a song so if if a drummer really plays the same pattern through the whole song I could I could I could program it you know so I could use a machine. But uh I I need this kind of uh unexpected kind of break or I don't know the change or maybe it's just just kind of the symbols that change something that that feels natural and all that and and as I as soon as I hear that I I don't care if there's a mistake in it or if maybe it's getting a little bit slower and then it it goes up with it with the tempo again. I think even that that's that's the coolest part of the song in the end with if there's a mistake or something.

SPEAKER_02 49:44

So that's what I appreciate at least there yeah and if people listen to the songs you'll hear that there are and we were not talking about obvious mistakes there are little you know imperfections in there but always this is the the fine line that a lot of people use um use feeling or or um like they use it as an excuse to play sloppy takes which is not the case in your case so there's a fine line between amateur sounding obvious mistakes and feel and imperfections that are actually good for the song. This is always a challenging thing to get right and if you listen to your songs there's like the imperfections are cool. And it's also it was part of the the whole collaboration between us as well where you told me right from the beginning the story you said you mentioned before where you had overdone it with the editing in the past and other you know productions and stuff and we wanted to avoid that and I think we nailed that balance pretty well I think you did what was necessary but you also let go when we when you said like nope this is this is enough and you know it works. And um you talking about the tech stuff you are working in logic pro primarily right um what was the the learning curve there for you like the in the last year or so like um I don't know maybe there are some major things that that have changed or that you've learned or maybe there are like because you and I I introduced you as someone who's like really creative and as if I remember correctly when we started working you said things like even in your assessment that we did I I think you mentioned something like you don't really like you know systems and checklists and like things like that. And uh and I think a part of it might have changed and I think you have a better more systematic workflow now. But also I think the whole technical side of it and using the tools and building certain systems and uh the learning curve with Logic Pro was probably a big part of of your entire learning experience. And I don't know just any thoughts on on that side of things because I think the creative part was never your problem. You have never struggled with that. It's more like the the technical making it come out of the speakers through the tech kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 51:53

Yeah I mean I didn't have any idea about about compressors for example um I don't I still don't think I have any idea about compressors but you know you're getting some some kind of approach that that it's the sound of a compressor that has to it's not I always made stuff louder with the compressor and I didn't even realize it that it sounded different you know and then that so uh my focus is is totally different now. So uh I have a lot to learn about technical stuff. I mean for Logic Pro um I hardly use any plugins from Logic Pro. I just I I just bought other plugins because I I felt really comfortable with the interface you know it looks nice and colorful and stuff that that helps me at least to keep the fun you're using a lot of UAD analog emulations right?

SPEAKER_02 52:40

Yeah well not not anymore no I no no I can't I only actually use the um the um what is it called the distressor oh yeah I really like the distressor yeah that's great um but uh um fanfilters for example is is a company that I really like um even though it's a lot deeper than I actually can ever use it yeah but um logic pro I I started working with automation you know I never used automation in in in a in a in a way and I always was working with the faders I never used the gain tool for example I didn't even know it it existed so uh that that's a a wholly different world for me and I mean the workflow just changed completely with with the with shortcuts and stuff so I'm a lot faster but I think it's it's only the recording process that that actually matters you know it's it's um like I I I cannot say that I'm I'm a master of microphones but at least I I I know which microphone does a a bit more that than this one and I think I I can't hear the differences that much but I I started to hear some differences at least you know yeah so I think it's I'm I'm in the very beginning um but I have I definitely have a starting point in every direction where I can go and then sometimes I really have a big grab but it's uh it's so much to learn you know and and still uh you you taught me a really big lesson in um that you said that if it doesn't need compression it doesn't need compression so you don't have to use compression and and and you said you always say uh in your tutorials you always say that uh you know you do it like that you do it like that but in a way it you don't have to do it like that you know it could it could work no it could work either way and that that gave me in a way that it could give you some it could that um and it gives you a lot of choice but in a way it helped me get that freedom to to decide no it's okay for me now so I don't need to do this I don't need to do that but I can so um I don't believe in black and white statements when it comes to audio it's always it always depends you know yeah right that's interesting and I I mean yeah I it's a little surprising to me that you say because I can only evaluate what I'm hearing and if I hear your mixes you know I don't have the feeling that you are not you you don't know what you're doing. But so when you say I still don't know what would like how to use compression basically I I don't really believe it because I hear your mix and obviously you roost that you used it the right way. Okay, okay good. So I'm just but yeah I I I also get that you're humble and that there's like a little you know there's always a little bit of imposter syndrome or insecurity with it.

SPEAKER_00 55:18

And um I mean if if you it it's just like an instrument you know I know how to play my guitar and I don't I know what I can do I know what I can do. And so if if you tell me something about my guitar I can decide if you if if it's suitable for me or or not. But um with the compressor of course I I I did the tutorials and I made my notes and I I know somehow how to start and and then what the effect of that is a little bit you know but I'm I'm not the master of it and sometimes that gives you that insecurity that that maybe I'm doing something wrong.

SPEAKER_02 55:49

So yeah maybe that's just being humble but uh uh yeah I'm on my way I I need that kind of security like I have it on my guitar for on a piano for example I I have no security at all so I know it's like an instrument for me isn't it so yeah it is yeah um and the other thing that was also part of it was not just the tutorials but also the feedback that you got obviously and I always thought that you were implementing it really well like it can sometimes be hard you know when I give someone feedback in the coaching and I say I would give the drums more punch or I would do more or less low end here and there. It's like it's sometimes hard to explain it. If someone's new to this it can be hard to explain it in a way that it makes sense to the other person and to give them an actionable way to implement it. But you always did a really great job of actually implementing that and and changing it and at least in the you know you um my feedback are always just suggestions so you don't have to do it. So but in the cases where you agreed and you tried it you always were good at implementing it which also gave me the sense that you understood the tools because otherwise you wouldn't have been able to implement the feedback and do it pretty much exactly what I suggested.

SPEAKER_00 56:55

So well you pointed me in the right direction that's what you did.

SPEAKER_02 56:59

Thank you. Thanks yeah thank you. Yeah great um do you see the whole tech side of things that we just talked about do you see that as a creative thing now or maybe as part of the creative process and less of a necessary but tedious and and and you know exhausting kind of necessary part no no is it so is is it is it fun for you now more or see it as a creative part of the process or how how do you view it?

SPEAKER_00 57:27

No the thing is um I'm I'm playing music for 30 years now. So um I've started 30 years ago and um I have so much experience in um in you know in playing music but I somehow always like never never touched the tech side of it. So this this is kind of this feeling that I should have done it for a I should have done it like 20 years ago. So it's like a bad a bad conscience in a way that I have that I had and now um I think it's it's definitely no it's it's it's a lot of fun. It's it's a lot of freedom again. And um I I went even out I bought myself a little mixing board and and and I mixed a band live you know when I was on stage as well. So I I even prepared it you know with with compressors and little limiting and stuff. So yeah of course uh it's it's a it's it's freedom and it's fun and it's such a good feeling to be able to do it. And um no it's really important I think it's really important to have a some knowledge you know some basic knowledge and uh I have a lot of guitar students and I even that that even that subject even goes into my guitar uh tutorials and stuff. Yeah of course because it's maybe it's a bit much in the beginning but I think uh you you should you should know it you should know it from the start. It shouldn't be a a hurdle you know in a way it should be should be freedom.

SPEAKER_02 58:47

I love that you say that a lot of people say you know I don't want to focus on any of the tech stuff I'm I just want to be a musician. And yeah of course you can do that and then always hire people um to help you with anything technical but I think today it's a very big advantage for most musicians to have at least some knowledge there and to be able to record yourself even if it's just demos. And even like we had on the podcast we had Kyle Hoffman here who's running NRG Studios and NRG recording in in um in LA one of the biggest most prestigious studios in the world they have all the gear in the world and everything and and even though his job is to bring people into the studio and and book the studio he said on the podcast that he said I think everybody should learn to record themselves and make their own stuff at home because it is just it's gonna make you a better musician. It's gonna make you um communicate better if you ever hire other people it's gonna just be at an advantage to just have at least a basic understanding of everything. And so I really love that you you're saying this and the tools are available these days for everyone so there's no reason to be to to not look at this and to you know and you shouldn't be afraid of it all either. It's like just a basic understanding being able to capture what you do I think it's really an advantage. And and if you get to the point where it gets fun and it's not a a big hurdle anymore then you're really in a good in a good spot and you can use the tools like you would use instruments like you said as creative tools. So I really like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:11

Yeah I mean in in the beginning uh the tech side gives you you know um it's it's a lot of fear around that you could do something wrong you know it could uh there's a lot of stuff you can do wrong you know you can hurt somebody if if you do it wrong on stage you know if if if there's a feedback or stuff so there's a lot of oh I have to I hope I do it correctly you know and and and after a while you have the feeling that there's possibilities you know you can do stuff you know with it so I that that's a really big goal for me so to to to see those possibilities and to to make the the distinctions you know uh speaking of the stage how does my kung fu work live is it just you and you do everything yourself is there a drummer with you how do you do the live shows with all with the blend of all the the things that you use in your in your songs uh well we haven't figured out all the instruments we want to use yet but uh uh I would like like to to work as at least as a duo with a with a keyboarder and um he's a great pianist um and uh then we work with the drummer as a trio if possible uh well that's that's kind of the the main uh the main band ensemble and then we have a bass the bass player you know the um my friend Lucas who used to record me as a great bass player so he's gonna be a part of the band as well um but I I try to keep it really really small but because there's some you know in Switzerland they have to to pay us like a minimum pay us a minimum of 400 bucks per gig per musician you know which just sounds yeah that's cool you know but if you're a five piece band no no club is gonna pay you two thousand bucks for your band that nobody knows so you have to keep your your bands really small um so that you're gonna sorry sorry to interrupt but like do you have to do you have to pay um a certain amount to artists is it really like that we've played in Switzerland before and we didn't get paid that much I know for sure. Well for festivals for festivals for Swiss musicians so you're German musicians so they don't care you get you get a lot you get a lot more gigs in Switzerland just good for you Spanish fans are really in Switzerland they're really into Spanish bands they don't want to they don't want to book Swiss bands anymore too expensive.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:26

Well how I didn't even know that I mean we got paid well in Switzerland and they treated us really well it was one of the best experiences we ever had um playing there. This was like I mean I come from the punk rock hardcore kind of world where um we played in what was the we played it a couple times but the one experience I'm talking about it was like uh it was this like big house where a lot of people were living together and they had this uh venue in the in the um ground floor where they did shows and it was this like artist collective thing super creative space there were all kinds of different artists together there a lot of people living together in the house and then they did the shows there and there was a couple of hundred people fantastic evening they paid us really well they treated us really well they were fant there was fantastic food um super nice people so we have great memories about switzerland but but also and I also I just asked about the the rule you mentioned with how much you need to get paid because I don't necessarily think even if there are rules I don't necessarily think that these people would have played by the rules you know what I mean so like um yeah but yeah I I'd have never heard of this before um well it's only in certain areas it's it's in Bern and St.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:31

Gallen um well it used to um and I haven't touched the subject since but uh for one festival it was was kind of the subject that they uh they wouldn't they would not book a band of five people that that wasn't famous that wouldn't bring them the people so because they were too expensive they had to pay them two thousand bucks and so that they only booked like duos and solo artists and stuff. And that in a way that influenced my decision to just to keep it small and maybe use a loop loop a loop station or uh maybe I don't want to use laptops on stage so somehow is is not my way to go but um you know what what we do we just we use uh an omni chord for example like this uh or strange instruments like uh like those pocket operators from teenage engineering that we use on stage uh and uh together with the loop station you can connect everything via MIDI and and and CV nowadays which is really really cool and you know I'm trying well it's kind of a difficult uh situation because I I would love to have like an acoustic song you know we play it solo and then it turns into a band song and the next song is kind of nearly as a DJ set like a bit uh electronic stuff you know with machines and stuff and then it turns and then acoustic instruments come in and then it turns again in the next song is maybe just a band song. So I try to be because every song demands something else that's what that's my meaning and of course you have to keep it simple but yeah um the thing is for for some for a club he needs to grab you he needs to be he needs to know what what he's selling you know so uh it's I think it's it's kind of difficult nowadays to to find your you know to to have a kind of a a style which is a bit different which which varies you through the set and still be booked. If if you have just one sound and and and and and it's easy to sell you it's easier to get to gig so it's it's kind of a difficult situation nowadays. I'm not sure how maybe I'll just go to the people I'll just buy a little PA and I go into the gardens and go into their coffees and and uh I go into pavilions and and and and and and community centers you know and and just play there. So that's that's one of my ideas.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:47

Yeah I think that's a great great idea actually I've seen it work for a couple of artists doing exactly that in addition to the normal shows. Do you would you do the drums all like like backing tracks, even the real drum recordings and stuff?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:58

No, no it's all Life should be.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:01

But uh but if you if you said you're a duo or it's just yourself, like who would play the drums?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:05

Nobody. There would be no duo.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:07

Oh, you just would leave it out of the live performance. Ah, all right, all right.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:10

Or maybe you know just to use a pocket operator or something that is or I have mine, which is really cool. Do you know the data machines? It's no uh it's a German company, and they they did those little um I think it was a Kickstarter thing. They had these little hammers which are uh connected to MIDI. It's like uh it's a little thingy that you can like tape to a glass or something, and then it hammers it it just it just makes the glass sound like ding! Or you can put it to an espresso or to a cup or uh yeah. Well, I had it all installed, and and uh you have to um if you wanna add a link. I had a song called Behind the Tree. Yeah, and it's um I'll send you the link. Maybe you can uh and uh uh we played as a duo behind the tree at the Maltone Festival. I have to send you the link. So we used that as a drum machine. So we had like six little hammers with six little bottles and and pans and stuff, and then we could program on a digital, you know. For example, you could program which hammer does what, and then you had this, and it's all mechanical, you know, it's it's digitally uh controlled, but it's it's mechanical and people could see it. So um that's that's the most important thing for me. So you have to to have something that people can see that they can that they can understand, you know. I don't like loops on stage, I don't like uh drums from from a machine. I would record everything on stage and then play it.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:40

Man, it's so so interesting. First of all, that makes me want to go and see one of your shows, so maybe that will ever happen. I mean, we're not that far apart, you know. I might I might make it at some point, so I would absolutely love to see that. The other thing that makes me think is like with that being said, I think every one of your shows is probably a little different from the previous one. It's like pretty much very hard to do exactly the same every night, which is also kind of exciting in a way. And then the other thing that's so interesting is so many artists are so concerned about what they record in the studio needs to be exactly what they can do live. And you know, whenever I make a creative idea that is an additional layer or something that you can only do in the studio, they're like, no, because we won't be able to do that live. And Alma is like, who cares? The live experience is a different experience. You want to do the best you can for the people at the evening there, and you might be able to do things that you cannot do on the record, and that's fine because it's better for the evening, but then on the record, you want to have the best experience for the listener of the record, and they don't have to be the same, and it might be different from genre to genre, but I wouldn't be too concerned with that because they are two different experiences, and you're actually if you want to do if you want to give your best in both situations, they're not gonna be the same anyways. It's so I I love that. I I really do. And as long as the essence of the song comes across, and of course, as long as people who are listening to your music online or on a record, as long as they are not disappointed when they come to the show, I think you're doing good, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:06

So I think it depends on the situation. You know, I had uh I've played to concerts where you had like two bands using backing tracks and stuff, and then there was the one band that I knew they they didn't want to use backing tracks, and the next band used backing tracks again, so that the band that I knew they somehow sounded bad, you know, in in in comparison to the other bands. So I might even I might even use backing tracks if I would play a big festival. So yeah, I I think it depends totally on the situation, you know. So that's what I meant.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:36

You want to do the best for the audience on that specific evening in that specific venue, and that can be a simple solo thing with very reduced setup, it can be a full-blown thing with backing tracks or a band, but it yeah, it depends, like you said. Um and uh and that flexibility and being open to do that is is a a good thing to have. And it also doesn't limit you, you know. You can then do what you said, you can go to a coffee, you can go to um somebody's garden and play uh a version that works there. Um so because you're not limited, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:07

And if if you record it yourself, you know, you have all the stuff in your computer, so you don't have to go to that guy to ask for those backing tracks and for those stems and stuff, so you have it all in the computer, and you have to you're in control of the whole thing, you can decide which is which is another pro for the uh the tech the tech side.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:24

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Oh, really cool. I want to see a show of yours. Uh by the way, I found I found it and I remembered it. The place where we played was called the KZP in Bremgarten. Bremgarten, huh? Bremgarten, yeah. Uh Kanton Argau.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:39

Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:41

Uh that's where it was. It's like a small town. Um, and the Kutzep apparently still exists. I just looked it up. We played there uh 15 years ago. And uh, but it still exists, and this is a super, super nice um community of people, and they yeah, they treated us so well. So shout out to those um people there. It was fantastic. Um, yeah. Yeah, so what was the next thing I wanted to ask? There was one more thing here that I wanted to touch on. Yeah, what of course you mentioned a couple of of your songs already. What is what is the latest release you've done and what is already out there for people to listen to and what is coming next so that people get a little bit of an overview and what what they can check out online?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:23

Well, yeah, I did some housekeeping on my Spotify account, and uh so there's my whole catalog is on there on uh My Kung Fu, M Y K-U-N-G-F-U. My Kung Fu. And um well, I I started releasing uh old tracks of mine uh in March, uh a track called Damage, a track called Gospel, a track called Hesitate, uh just to push my monthly listeners uh in in an organic way. And that really worked well. From I went from 77 to 2,500 now, which is uh and I think the difference made my last track was uh which is Please Please Me, the song that I had to re re-record because my vocal sounded so bad.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:08

Um that was the one that you re-recorded. Oh, that was the one you re-recorded. Do you have how long ago did you do the first version of it? 20 years ago. Oh, that was the one. All right, yeah. And this is out already, right? Please please me.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:21

Yeah, and you're even in there as a mousing engineer, so I checked it out. Thanks. So um, so that song is it. I I I went to a Ferris wheel. We were we had this this big festival in Wintertour. There was a Ferris wheel, so I asked a friend of mine, and uh, we went on the Ferris wheel and I played guitar, and I used that as a as a uh a meta-ad uh kind of catchy thing, and it worked perfectly because it's it's so it's so it's please please me, you know. So I'm begging and uh I'm in I'm somewhere where it's just about fun, and it's somehow it works really nice that the pictures and the music together. And uh yeah, so I have like 3,000 plays for in in two weeks, which is a lot for me, you know. So uh it's nothing for maybe someone else, but it's a lot for me.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:05

I think most people listening, if they're starting out, they would be super happy to have people listen to a song 3,000 times.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:11

I think crazy, isn't it? Uh so Please Please Me is the the latest. Uh and now I'm starting to release uh release the Hounds. Uh we made a video clip for that one, and we're gonna release it uh probably uh in the beginning of September. And then uh we have the new songs that we worked on together. Yeah, they're coming out in uh probably all every six or eight weeks. I'm trying to keep up my my meta ads uh timing, which is quite a lot of work. I I didn't play guitar for a lot of for uh for uh for six-seven weeks now. Uh I was just doing promo editing videos and stuff. It's uh it's a pain in the ass. Sorry. Sorry for that. I didn't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:51

And you can absolutely say whatever you want at the podcast, it's totally allowed.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:55

No, it's actually it's such a freedom to do it yourself, you know. You can you don't need a promo agency, you don't need anyone, you don't need a crew that is editing movies and stuff. You can do it yourself, but it's a lot of work. But I think it's it's worth uh it's worth the uh the the whole work that you've put into it. So yeah, there's you know, release the hounds and nothing is wrong, it's gonna be the next song. The newest one that we did, we're gonna release uh at Christmas. It's called the New York City Lights. It's that kind of really nice sounding. Oh, I love it too. I love her voice, especially. Uh it's a well thanks.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:32

No, it's so good. The emotion, like how it felt immediately when I heard it is just that that's a special one, in my opinion. Yeah. Thanks. So yeah, so how do you how do you learn all because you said you said you do it yourself? Um how are you uh how do you learn the promotion and the marketing side of things? Because I know you're deep in that bubble right now, trying to learn all of that now that you're at the point where you can produce your own music. Um now the next step was for you to learn about the promotion and marketing, and you're deep into that now. So um any like I don't know, main takeaways there already? Or uh how is that going, that whole process of learning that side of it?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:09

Well, uh as you actually you put me on it. Uh you had this uh you had Jesse Cannon on your show. That's right. And uh in the beginning I thought it's so terrible to listen to him because his New York slang, and then he always sounds like he's he has a cold. That's true. But but when you when you start listening to what he what he says, it's so interesting. And he's he's such a nice uh guy, and he just does it for fun, you know, because he he believes in it and he does a lot of work for us, for us uh independent musicians. So I started listening to him a lot. And uh I have his his museformation, I think it's called on YouTube. Uh yeah. Um I listened to that podcast a lot. And then he had an interview with a guy um it is called Chand. Uh it's there's a company called Intelligent. Yeah, and they do this kind of interface for meta ad placements, which is really cool because meta ads is so it's so it's so difficult to find your way in when you go to meta itself to the meta center. And they have an interface that helps you placing your ads, and uh they have a strategy and everything. So I started uh that the when you want to do that, you need to to have move uh like movie clips in in uh for the cell phone. Uh between 15 and 30 seconds, you need to to edit like lit little clips and uh then you put your your uh lyrics in there and they put your album cover in there in the end, and then you have like a link to to a landing page where you can where they can like choose either Spotify or Apple Music, whatever. So where you wanna point them. Um that's that's the way I'm going at least. And and and and then I'm trying via MusersSoup, which is uh another provider like Grover Grover, I think is another one, Musersoop uh playlist push, I think you can use as well. And um and I'm trying to get on as many playlists as possible there. So you you upload a song and then either they accept it or not. And if they accept it, they there are curators who contact you if they like the song, and mostly they want to write articles about you, uh, they want to write 200 words plus, which sorry if that's my opinion, doesn't help you at all. Because there's they they're gonna put that those articles on a website somewhere that nobody ever sees, and they have like 300 bands featured there, and nobody cares. Um so you pay to to be to be uh published, you know, you you have to pay for for articles, which is completely new for me. So a few years ago, you if if you were interesting and somebody would wanted to feature you, they they featured you, they didn't have to pay for it. So nowadays you have to pay for it. And uh I just I stopped doing that. Um they always have a free alternative that they have to offer you on UserSoup, which is mostly a Spotify playlist placement, and always choose that. So then then you I think you have to combine different stuff. You know, you have to play live, you have to do those uh meta ads, and then you you should we should land on as one as many uh Spotify playlists as possible uh if you want to push those numbers, you know. So that's what I'm doing now.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:30

Okay. Very interesting, very interesting. This is again something a lot of people just never do, and it's part of why they never get anywhere. And so with the way you approach it, I'm have I have no doubts that you that it's gonna work for you. How far you can take it, that's a different story, you know. But advertising, promoting yourself in an authentic way with music behind it that you truly believe in and that you're proud of always works. It's just a question of how well it works and how people receive it, that's out of your control. But at least you can get it to a certain level and you can at least give it a chance. And so I really like the the fact that you're doing this and learning all of this. And also shout out to Jesse Cannon. Um, he is great and and he knows he's well aware of the fact that not everybody likes him, especially at first sight, because he's like now. Exactly. No, and he and he actually would think that's a good thing because he's not trying to please anyone, he's not trying, he's really authentic in what he does, he's super successful, but he also says whatever he wants and he doesn't care you know what people think about that. And at the end, most people end up liking it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So shout out to you, Jesse. Thank you again for the amazing podcast you did with us. Yeah, so really cool that you're diving into this as well. Um Manel, do you have any thoughts before we go or questions before we go to our rapid fire round?

SPEAKER_01 1:19:49

I don't have been quietly listening here.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:55

Yeah, like as always, I sometimes feel bad for you having to sit through these interviews and really asking questions. But I mean you're free to ask at any time, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:04

Like Yeah, but sometimes I think what you're talking about is so interesting that I don't need to say anything, you know. I just let you do your thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:15

I'm always waiting for you, always have your one moment in most episodes where like it's a philosophical thing most of the time that comes up. We're like, oh yeah, that's the Mannel question, you know, something deeper beyond the music, whatever. So any any philosophical thoughts today?

SPEAKER_00 1:20:29

Yeah, you could do more, you could do more. It's really interesting with when you ask something.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:33

Yeah, I think so too. Well, I think my philosophical question of today was the first one about like when we consider something good or not, um how do we make that decision? Because at the end, something we've been talking about in in this podcast quite a lot is that as no one never ever knows how to make it big with music. Uh the best choice, which is what Tommy does, is to do whatever you want. And then if it loads up, it loads up. If it doesn't, it doesn't. But also Dummy is putting a lot of effort in the promotion of the music. So that's a good I think that's a step further, right? Like you're really trying to bring it to people. So it's not a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:31

Yeah, I mean you know the the the thought was that uh I I put so much work in in like the last year, just there's so many hours that I put into the the work and and I was really happy about it. And it would have been a shame to to just uh release it and then send a few emails and stuff. And I just I really wanted to make the best of it, you know, uh the most I wanted to reach the most people possible somehow. Not because I think um I need to impress the whole world, but because I I think there there must be at least like 20, 30, 40,000 people worldwide that that would at least be interest is interested in one of my songs or in a few of my songs. I I just wanted to find out where if if there's people around who appreciate what I'm doing. I'm sure there's some people around for everyone.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:17

Yeah. The thing is, if you do what you personally really like, there is a high chance that someone else is also gonna resonate with that because we're not that unique and special. You know, someone else has has experienced similar things in life, and like and that's whenever you try to please a lot of people, the irony is it becomes so vanilla that it doesn't really resonate with any with anyone anymore. And the more specific you are and you lean into your story, your experiences, your taste, you're gonna find someone who resonates with that. And you're gonna push people away who don't, but that's fine, that's part of the process, yeah. Yeah, and with the effort in promotion, you just you just give it a chance, right? Like Manil said, nobody knows exactly how to do it. If if anyone had a formula, you know, they'd just be printing money like that. And yes, there are successful songwriters who do it over and over again, but also nobody has really fully figured out. All the people in at the record labels, they wish there was this one formula that always is means success, but it there they don't. And so it's not worth thinking about it. It's but you you at least give your songs a chance, yes, and your music a chance, and you give people a chance to experience it, and if it ends up working, it works. And if not, you at least have something that you're proud of, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:27

And I mean, even if I want to just play some gigs in Switzerland, you know, it helps me to have two and a half thousand monthly listeners instead of 77. So it just gives another impression, even if I just do radio promotion now in Switzerland, and it's a it's a different figure, you know. It's uh it's it's it's an appearance somehow that is important to those people at least.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:46

Yeah, and it's so it's absolutely the norm these days that bookers look at the monthly Spotify listeners when they book people because they want to sell out their shows and they wanna, you know, like that's it's one of the first numbers that people look at. That plus social media numbers plus other things, it's just it is what it is, and yeah. Cool. So um let's do uh I wanna I want to ask one more question before we go into what we always call our rapid fire round, where I just give you quick questions and you answer immediately without thinking, basically. So I'm looking forward to that. But before we go through there, uh I want to do one more question, and that is if there is is there like one big thing that you remember from our collaboration? Like maybe I don't know what what was the most helpful aspect or maybe one thing you remember particularly from our collaboration? I just I just uh would love that kind of feedback. I don't know if there is a specific thing, maybe one aha moment or one thing that stood out to you.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:44

Uh the most important thing for me was that I had a sense that it's not about doing the right thing, but doing the right thing for myself. That gave me total freedom, you know, that gave me that security that I can that you're gonna listen to my songs the and and the way I listen to them, which is not the norm. So uh that that stood out for me. And and it somehow it leads to the the other thing that when I was working on my songs, I always knew I could ask you, you know, if if I was stuck or so. I always knew that you give me the right kind of answer, you point me in the right direction. Uh, because you you would really take the song apart and listen to it carefully and and and and and so those two parts that really gave me that security and that that um that was like a mate bed. I was really feeling comfortable there. So uh no, it's exceptional, really.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:38

I appreciate that. Thank you, Dumi. Awesome. And uh now totally unrelated to the coaching, but like um in general, what would you say to an artist who is maybe you know hasn't recorded themselves, maybe they're a good musician, um they're thinking about you know getting into recording, maybe there's it seems complex, there's a lot of hurdles, whatever. What would you tell someone on the fence, you know, or thinking, should we forever go to studios and rely on other people? Should we try to learn some of that stuff ourselves or something in between? Like, what would you tell someone like that who's hesitant because it just seems so overwhelming, which is a lot of people listening to this, I know.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:14

I think it's it's better it's done than it's perfect. Um, you should do it yourself. Don't hesitate, just do it. I mean, the best is if you do it and it's not it's not the the way you wanted it, you can still try something else. But I'm sure there's something in there that you like, and and and and it you have to free stuff in your head, you know. You you cannot just it it's like it's like uh it's blocked, you know. If if you don't release it, if you don't let it out of your of your system, it's it's gonna block you. So just you have to let it out in in either way, if you do it yourself or ask someone else, uh, so that new stuff can come in and then then you can protest process new stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:54

I love that. You can you have to empty the cup so you can refill it, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's what it feels for me. Yeah. Oh man, I love that. Thank you so much. Cool. Yeah, that's that's inspiring. Um then that's this is what this is about, inspiring others to explore their own, you know, music and all and and journey. So that's that's really cool. Thanks. Awesome. Let's go to the rapid fire round. Um, I'm gonna ask you a couple of questions and you just answer quickly as quick as possible without thinking too much about it. It's just gonna be a few. So let's start. Most influential artist to you right your head. Okay. Um, favorite song of all time.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:38

Um TV by um with a blur.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:43

Oh, interesting. Okay. If you could meet one artist, dead or alive, doesn't matter, you can time travel and meet people who are already gone. Uh if you could meet one artist to talk to them, who would it be?

SPEAKER_00 1:27:55

Elliot Smith.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:57

That was fast. And if you could meet One person doesn't have to be an artist. One person dead or alive and talk to him. Who would it be?

SPEAKER_00 1:28:10

Whatever. Yeah. Also, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:12

I mean, that might change the course of history.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:16

Yeah, I get you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:20

Was that the answer? Can I let it be?

SPEAKER_02 1:28:23

Yeah, yeah. I leave that there. That's cool. Um, favorite live performance you've seen?

SPEAKER_00 1:28:32

Oh my, I'm so sorry, I have to say uh radiohead again in uh in the year 2000. What was it 2002 or something? In uh Avanche in Switzerland. That's a fantastic, fantastic concert. And sorry, it's a longer answer, but uh every every concert that I see of the band, they somehow impressed me with something else, you know. So uh they never disappointed me, which uh which is the only band that actually was able to do that. So somehow, yeah, somehow it always somehow another band would would make some maybe I would see them in a bad face or something, and but Radio Ed they never let me down. How often have you seen them? Four times, maybe four times.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:16

Oh crazy, cool, really cool. All right, and then um one venue you would love to play at. Those are fast questions. I love that. That's great. Fast answers, I love that. It's great. And then the final one we always ask uh burger or pizza?

SPEAKER_00 1:29:40

Uh burger.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:41

Yes! It's the first the first time everyone so far has said pizza, and I knew somebody's gonna say burger. I'm a burger guy too. I like pizza, but yeah. Yeah, uh thank you, thank you. That's cool. I knew someone thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:00

Uh this question is killing me. He hasn't found an answer yet. It depends on the burger and the quick pizza. Yeah, I mean, I just I was thinking like an hour ago or something about this. Um, two hours ago, because an hour ago we were already here. So so uh but yeah, if I think about the best pizza I've ever had and how I felt with the first bite, and then I also think about the best hamburger, the first bite. I don't know, I can't choose. Like, yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:44

All right, yeah, um I don't like it.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:47

Well the longer I the longer I think about it, the harder it gets. So yeah, exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:55

Because we've started doing this a couple episodes ago, and the more people are gonna listen to the podcast before we get them on the show, if they have time to prepare for that, we might get different answers, you know. As long as people don't know that the question comes, we get different answers, I guess. And if people will think about this in advance, I'll see how what the answers will be like. I don't know. It's gonna be interesting. Yeah, cool. So um, Dumi, we're gonna put all of the things you mentioned, you know, your songs, links to everything you have in the show notes. Um, is there anything you know, any particular thing that's most important to you that we should send people to? How can they check out your music? How can they see where you play live? What's the most important link or or thing you want to tell people to check out?

SPEAKER_00 1:31:39

Yeah, I mean, if you want to go to my website, it's uh uh uh mykongfu music.com. Um and um if they want to support me, like you can support me with uh with a dollar or two per month. You can go to patreon.com slash my kungfu. Oh, cool. Uh I couldn't do it without it. Um I have like two or three hundred bucks per month that come in uh through this channel, which uh interesting, which are yeah, which are actually uh giving me the possibility to uh to pay musicians or to um invest in meta ads and stuff. So yeah, it's really important. It's only about like one dollar or one euro per month, which is cool. I love that. Yeah, and I'm on Instagram and on Spotify, so where wherever you are, I even have a YouTube channel with my newest videos, and uh yeah, be free. I'm cool, always welcome.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:34

Cool. I'm gonna put all of this in the show notes. Um, and I think you should absolutely check out uh Domi's music, My Kung Fu, like we said before. I think it's absolutely you have to decide if you like it or not, but I think it's exciting, it's great, and um, I I really encourage you to check it out. And then also I really want to see you play live at some point. That really got me excited about it. So I hope this will happen.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:59

Thanks. Yeah, it would be a pleasure.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:02

Great. Well, again, thank you so much for making the time to be here today and to share your journey and your perspectives with the audience. That was a super inspiring episode. And um I wish you all the success and fun and everything with your music projects, the the promoting of stuff, the upcoming songs, everything you're gonna do in the future. I want to thank you also for trusting us with what we do over here and for the great collaboration that we had. And uh yeah, so I I'm I'm overall really, really excited about it.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:32

Thank you, Benny. Thanks a lot. Thanks a lot for everything. Thank you, Manel. You're welcome. Hope to see you soon.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:38

Thanks, Manel, for being here with us today as well, of course, as always. All right, so thank you as well for watching and listening, and we'll see you next week with another exciting episode and a good guest. So thanks. Bye-bye, everyone.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:52

Goodbye.