Get access to our super detailed DIY-recording course "Mix-Ready: The Band Recording Essentials" and our "Everything Bundle" that also includes our mixing courses (feat. Wet Future):
https://theselfrecordingband.com/mixready/
Get our free video training & checklist, "Standout Mixes - The DIY Musician's Guide To Exciting Mixes That Stand Out And Connect":
theselfrecordingband.com/standoutmixes
-
Apply for The Self-Recording Syndicate, our unique, personalized coaching program for those who are taking this seriuosly and jump on a free clarity call with us to see if it is a great fit for you:
theselfrecordingband.com/call
--
Episode show notes:
Wet Future return to the podcast to share details about recording their record, "Under the Weather", DIY-style versus hiring a producer and renting a big high-end recording studio to produce their upcoming new material.
They made both methods work very well and on this episode they explain why that is and what went into it. They talk about the pros and cons of each process and also discuss their current hybrid approach that they are looking to refine in the future.
This is an incredibly valuable episode because it makes a few things very clear that many DIY-musicians are not fully aware of:
The importance of pre-production:
Why most professional records get fully recorded and planned out during this demo process before the actual recording session starts and everything gets recorded again.
What it takes to make great records, DIY or not:
Great songs, great performances, lots of practice and preparation, perfectly set up guitars with great intonation, great rooms, etc.
Why making a DIY record still often means hiring professional mixing and mastering engineers:
Production and engineering is hard enough to do yourself. Most artists are simply not capable of also doing the mixing themselves and are therefore much better off focussing on being musicians.
Unless you are putting in the many hours required to learn mixing properly and with professional guidance, your mixes will not sound professional. Period.
That's why bands like Wet Future record themselves, but hire pros for mixing who can also guide them through the self-recording process and therefore get them a better end result.
Their records and their progress as DIY-producers speak for themselves.
The biggest challenge with DIY-productions:
Someone still needs to produce! Can you do that?
Let's dive in!
PS: Please join the conversation by leaving a comment on YouTube, a rating and review on your podcast app, or a post inside our free Facebook community.
--
For links to everything we've mentioned in this episode, as well as full show notes go to: https://theselfrecordingband.com/214
--
If you have any questions, feedback, topic ideas or want to suggest a guest, email us at: podcast@theselfrecordingband.com
Get access to our super detailed DIY-recording course "Mix-Ready: The Band Recording Essentials" and our "Everything Bundle" that also includes our mixing courses (feat. Wet Future):
https://theselfrecordingband.com/mixready/
Get our free video training & checklist, "Standout Mixes - The DIY Musician's Guide To Exciting Mixes That Stand Out And Connect":
theselfrecordingband.com/standoutmixes
-
Apply for The Self-Recording Syndicate, our unique, personalized coaching program for those who are taking this seriuosly and jump on a free clarity call with us to see if it is a great fit for you:
theselfrecordingband.com/call
--
Episode show notes:
Wet Future return to the podcast to share details about recording their record, "Under the Weather", DIY-style versus hiring a producer and renting a big high-end recording studio to produce their upcoming new material.
They made both methods work very well and on this episode they explain why that is and what went into it. They talk about the pros and cons of each process and also discuss their current hybrid approach that they are looking to refine in the future.
This is an incredibly valuable episode because it makes a few things very clear that many DIY-musicians are not fully aware of:
The importance of pre-production:
Why most professional records get fully recorded and planned out during this demo process before the actual recording session starts and everything gets recorded again.
What it takes to make great records, DIY or not:
Great songs, great performances, lots of practice and preparation, perfectly set up guitars with great intonation, great rooms, etc.
Why making a DIY record still often means hiring professional mixing and mastering engineers:
Production and engineering is hard enough to do yourself. Most artists are simply not capable of also doing the mixing themselves and are therefore much better off focussing on being musicians.
Unless you are putting in the many hours required to learn mixing properly and with professional guidance, your mixes will not sound professional. Period.
That's why bands like Wet Future record themselves, but hire pros for mixing who can also guide them through the self-recording process and therefore get them a better end result.
Their records and their progress as DIY-producers speak for themselves.
The biggest challenge with DIY-productions:
Someone still needs to produce! Can you do that?
Let's dive in!
PS: Please join the conversation by leaving a comment on YouTube, a rating and review on your podcast app, or a post inside our free Facebook community.
--
For links to everything we've mentioned in this episode, as well as full show notes go to: https://theselfrecordingband.com/214
--
If you have any questions, feedback, topic ideas or want to suggest a guest, email us at: podcast@theselfrecordingband.com
What about pre-production? What was there a pre-production on this album? New album.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, which we have also learned from doing the last album. You know, the better the scratch, the better the demo is before going in. Obviously it's gonna lead to a better end product. We're really heavy in like demo mode right now, so we wanna just get as many demos together as possible. The more time we spend on creating these demos, the better it's gonna be in the end and we just come in, use those demos as scratch tracks and gives us a better idea in this studio, right? So yeah, pre-production is huge for sure.
Speaker 1:So to clarify, you are essentially recording your own scratch tracks entirely, like flashing out the song and pre-production yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's pretty much like what we were doing before with you, except for we're just not paying to get those mixed and mastered. We're just going into studio and retracking stuff, and obviously things change in the process. But the closer you get going into the studio, the better it is.
Speaker 1:This is the Self Recording Band Podcast the show where we help you make exciting records on your own, wherever you are DIY style, let's go. Hello and welcome to the Self Recording Band Podcast. My name is Malcolm Owen-Flood. Today's a different episode than usual because, well, first off, benny's not here. I think for the first time Benny's not here. Maybe Maybe the second time. But I'm doing this one not alone. I am with my good friends, colleagues, past clients, even if we ever played on the same stage with you, I have yes, we have.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I'm here with the guys from Wet Future. I've got Lucas and Brett from Wet Future who have. Well, lucas has been on the podcast before. Yeah, first time for Brett. Welcome Brett, thank you. But we are doing like I mean, it's gonna be a cool episode. We're talking, we're gonna recap your first album because, for people that are new and haven't heard the original episode we did together, wet Future self-recorded their debut album. It was like a full LP, wasn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was a nine song. Yeah, that's an LP for sure.
Speaker 1:And so self-recorded that I got to mix and master it. Very fun, cool project that I'm super proud of, and it's done pretty well, I would say. But now you're in the studio with a producer doing it kind of the opposite way, the kind of the non-DIY way. So we want to explore the comparison between those and I think you guys are perfectly suited to talk about that and give those perspectives, having done it both ways. There was one song on the first album that you did track in the studio as well, so you've gotten to see it done multiple different ways. You've both made other albums in different ways as well. I'm sure I know that Lucas and I have cut many albums together, actually For sure. So songs, at least albums as well. Yeah, yeah, definitely A lot together over the years.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, it's been actually I just added this up some more and it's been about seven years, really, that we've been working together, yeah, since Shepherd's song number one. Yeah, exactly Ever since we came. I don't know if everyone knows us, but Malcolm was in like the hottest band on the island, band of Rascals.
Speaker 3:They were killer when I first moved to Victoria.
Speaker 2:I remember there was a couple of bands there was Jesse Roper and then there was Band of Rascals and they were like those are the Holy Grail bands. And I remember going to Riftlandia the music festival and just before we already had tickets to go, we're going to go check you guys out. And it was like a week before that you were like, hey, we've found you online and I, like Shepherd, you always see if you want to come cut a song with me and we're so stoked. So I remember meeting you for the first time and I was like, was it Riftlandia?
Speaker 3:I think so. Yeah, it was Riftlandia.
Speaker 2:And Roper was also playing on stage with you guys, as I am too and it felt really cool, Awesome that you brought us to the side and you're like, yeah, I like your stuff. And we're like we're starstruck at the time. Malcolm.
Speaker 1:It was amazing, awesome. And Brett, when did we first meet? It must have been through.
Speaker 3:It was with Shepherd, it was with Shepherd, it was with Shepherd with Lucas, when they asked me to play drums on their EP Right, and then obviously throughout the years we just kept working together, as well with some other tracks as well, with Chase and stuff like that, yeah, but I don't think we've ever actually gotten to cut a drum track together in the studio.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, maybe one day, hopefully. Fingers crossed, buddy.
Speaker 2:Oh, you guys did the Shepherd stuff together, but I think At Infinity Studios.
Speaker 3:Oh my gosh, we did that was it? Yeah, three songs, it was three songs.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, smart man.
Speaker 2:I'll never forget it yeah.
Speaker 1:Awesome, one of us has got a memory.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:All right, so let's back it up. Wet Future yeah, listeners again, go check out the first episode we did with Lucas and Sean, the singer of the band. Oh yeah, and for people, so everybody knows what's going on. Lucas plays guitar in the Lee guitarist of Wet Future and Brett is the drummer of Wet Future and yeah, so we got to back it up. First album, the first single. You actually go into the studio and cut it, yeah, and I believe that kind of looked like I mean it was Silver Side Sound, which is just down the road from here, actually just around the corner, and big live room. Did you track the bed tracks?
Speaker 2:live. Yeah, we did all the bed tracks live. It was pretty fun. We at the time Brett was just hired as, in quotations, the session guy, yeah, and so he came in with like these drum tracks that we were like we want you to play this, and then he came in, and then we were working with Chris Erickson at the time who was producing it, and he came in and he's like Brett just play anything else. So he played what he felt and it turned out to be a way better song Awesome yeah.
Speaker 1:Awesome, so yeah. So playing as a band, though that's like it's a great way to play, right, it feels pretty natural recording with the whole band set up. They definitely kind of react to each other, so I'm assuming you enjoyed that experience.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean there's definitely benefits to both. Obviously, personally, I love doing it, to do it that way.
Speaker 3:Yeah for sure. Great, yeah. What about you, brett? Yeah, I think I can go both ways on it being a drummer. Sometimes I like being as tight as I can with just a bed track that's already done for me, but then also at the same time it's a nice feel having the band in the room as well. So I'm both ways.
Speaker 2:Cool. I think it really depends on a song, the song basis. For sure, it certainly does.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I most of the time I love the bed track idea and I think at first I'm just like you get perfected by just playing by yourself and focusing on the one track. But I think that playing as a group it really shows in the recording. For sure. We actually, on a couple of songs we did, we did it or we did it off scratch tracks and we have learned that the scratch track needs to be absolutely perfect or the drummer might cater to how the scratch track sounds.
Speaker 2:And then at the end of it. You need to maybe edit or move stuff because the feel is not quite there. Yeah, yeah, 100%.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, so you, you cut that song as a band, live with the floor, some vocal overdubs, that kind of thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Definitely A pretty common approach in like the all rock genre. I would say Absolutely. But then the next song it's now, we're going to do it DIY right, entirely DIY. So what was, if you remember, what was the ethos behind wanting to do it like that and how did it go?
Speaker 2:Well, the reason we wanted to do it was definitely financial reasons. If we could have done it all of it at Silver Sotting Studio, I mean we would have done it, but that's. We were a brand new band, had never done a show ever. It was like starting us through COVID. So we had no money, so everything was out of pocket. So we were decided that DIY was the route to go and conveniently, at that time the self recording band podcast was really doing a lot of episodes and stuff like that. So we learned obviously a lot. So, yeah, I mean at that time Brett was kind of joining the band full time and he has a little sound, isolated drum studio that he teaches out of.
Speaker 2:So we did scratch tracks me and Sean, our lead singer and our old bass player Zime. We just did some really rough scratch tracks, sent it to Brett. He cut some great drums, sent it back and we did all of our tracks at home, pretty much in my small little condo Downtown Victoria where you're dealing with like traffic driving by sirens. Everything we made like little forts that Sean could sing in. Everything was a DI guitar track that we sent to you and you made magic out of it. I don't know how we am. Yeah, yeah, we had a lot of issues, I think probably even probably the second song in or something we did with you. I remember we were just like we just guitar tracks were just bad, and I remember you like sent back the mix. I'm like, oh yeah, malcolm, definitely retract some of these guitars.
Speaker 1:I did it. I swear I don't think I know you said you did on them. I added guitars to Bitter Sweet.
Speaker 2:That's what it was, yeah, but I remember this sounds way better. So, yeah, I was like this chorus is just like meh to hit, and it didn't, so I added another power chord layer kind of thing. I love it and that's definitely what it needed. So we're just so early in to new to be doing, making tracks and stuff that we didn't even know what we were doing. Yeah, so the fact that you work the magic you did is incredible, awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I do remember like dealing with, yeah, the guitar things, tracking guitars, yeah. I mean as you know, like even working with me in the studio. Yeah, in person. It's like the intonation has just be so, so good. So that was like something we kept on working on, but I do remember that, as you, you send me songs and for the listeners they, they don't know, but you were doing one song at A time, yeah so it was like track songs finished, send it to Malcolm mix.
Speaker 1:Yeah, release another song. Shows up a month later or something. Yeah, it's kind of like how it went and just kept getting better. You know, so I remember by crooked judge I used your guitar tone even I didn't even re-app it. Yeah, it was like. This sounds fucking awesome.
Speaker 2:Let's be honest there. That's because I didn't give you a di track, because I screwed up in the recording process. And you did the whole, the whole mixing course. With that I'm like, oh, I hope he doesn't pick the song, but it's up to him to pick it. But I didn't even give you a Great. I thought it was the perfect tone.
Speaker 1:So I was thrilled with it, honestly sure so and but like the information was good as well. Okay, you know it just like it progressed and got better and better. Yeah, it was like, oh, that there was kind of there's a huge advantage to doing one song at a time where there's feedback cycle. That happens every time. So if you run into an issue, it's like hey, I remember with you, brett the room mics, I just kept muting them, essentially, and then you had like a mono room that you just kept moving around. So we just, I think I just kept telling you to try somewhere new, and then I think you ended up with it like down Low to the ground, maybe even behind the door. Is that bring a bell? That's correct.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's still in the same spot. Yeah, yeah, it was like hey, this, this really worked.
Speaker 1:Keep doing that. You know, we just kind of kept messing with it, and then I remember the Something got clipped on one song, so it was like we got to make that lower cane, and so the the process of self recording Did get better every song. It was awesome and and I think we just mentioned this off air on Before the pockets, but it's like it's done Well, like the song, nothing, it's like 65,000 streams, I think, yeah, and growing. It's on a huge Spotify playlist, which is awesome. Congratulations, guys. Thank you very much.
Speaker 1:Yeah and then I'm like what was our first single?
Speaker 2:That was tough, tough enough.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that got on the radio. Yeah, so that's freaking cool as well. So, like Bang for buck, I think you guys did really well with that album. You know of like hey, we have to do it this way because we were trying to save money and you pulled off a quality product and it performed well, so that's like that's a huge win.
Speaker 1:Yeah, now Fast forward. This. This album is out, released, you're selling up shows in Victoria, which is awesome, and you decide, okay, it's time to cut our new album. Yeah, what's the conversation and how does it go from? We're saving all our money to do it DIY, entirely aside from mixing and mastering, to let's go into the studio and cut a song with a, like you know, real producer and engineer and quite a nice studio as well. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:How did that conversation first come up, right? Well, I mean, we had we had some money because we had done, you know, we done a bunch of shows and we had you know a good amount of coin in the bank and we had the means to do. So we kind of knew that was the next level, like by all, like we are absolutely proud of the album that we did and you know it, you know I can listen to it now and I don't like hate it, yeah, which is great, yeah. And I mean I just gotta say we wouldn't have had that album if it wasn't for, first of all, you and the self recording band podcast. Oh, thanks, like it. Just it couldn't have happened because we didn't know how to. I wouldn't even know how to like Use a dog or anything like that, like to like make tracks leveled or anything like that.
Speaker 3:I don't even know what one was.
Speaker 2:So, you know, we're very proud of it and I think when we finished it up, we're like, well, like what kind of what's the next sort of step forward in the band and stuff like that, and we wanted to do all studio work before and Now that we had a little bit of money, we got a grant from the government, which was really great, and so we, you know, we searched around and Sean actually met our producer now, sheldon Zarko, through doing videography at the warehouse in Vancouver, which is, if you don't know, a big, beautiful studio by Brian Adams.
Speaker 2:I know you've been there, yeah. So he met Sheldon through there and we just Kind of decided that was a route we want to go. Sean, just being in the studio with him, just loved his efficiency and how quick he was working and and whatnot. So we kind of just decided to give it a shot. So we booked at Monarch Studios. Have you ever been there?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I got an album there and I love that place. Yeah, it's beautiful.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So we went in there and Just, I don't, we just decided that was the best route to go. We didn't do too much shopping around. To be honest. We're just like, oh yeah, let's do it. And we've looked at you know his catalog and it sounds great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Did Sheldon recommend the studio? No, you know we just, we just.
Speaker 2:Chose it. We wanted to get in the warehouse but again it was, you know, a bit more money, yeah, and it was between that and another studio, but we decided that was gonna be the best route.
Speaker 1:We'd loved some of the other bands that have been in in there, so yeah, you have people a perspective that they're not familiar with either of these studios, though the warehouse is Possibly the nicest studio in North America. Yeah, definitely amazing. I mean definitely top two in Canada, for sure. It's huge, it's giant, amazing building. But the Monarch is by no means a small mom-and-pop studio. It's a commercial facility as well, with amazing gear, amazing rooms, a great sound and acoustics, very natural sounding drum room, which I'm sure you love absolutely. I've heard a couple tracks off the, the new album and they they represent that to me that sounds like Monarch's drum room very much. So that's cool, very well done, and showed it to Sheldon as well, because yeah, that's great work.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely, yes, yeah yeah, so okay.
Speaker 1:So it was like that you had tasted that with the first song. Toughen up doing that silver side, for sure. Doing your beds live was the similar, by the way, like beds live and then some overdubs.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So the first song we chose, mona Lisa. Yeah, it's out. Check it out now, spotify, apple music. We did that. We just had played the song, like when we're writing it, like it came together really quick and it felt like a live off-the-floor song and we went in and I, we went in with the intention to do that way. We went in with no scratch tracker, anything like that, like we had like a quick demo we had made and that's the kind of the direction Sheldon wanted to sort of go with the record and it too. So we went in and we, yeah, we did the bed tracks all pretty quick and then, yeah, overdubbed some guitars and Vocals and it was with came out like in one day with pretty much the song almost complete.
Speaker 1:Sweet, yeah awesome, yeah, okay. So, yeah, you, you'd tasted that you're like we. I think we can afford it. Yeah, met somebody that feels like the right person? Yeah, so then you have book studio go do it. Is there any carryover from the DIY approach?
Speaker 2:Yes so.
Speaker 2:On Mona Lisa in particular. Just because we're on that song right now, we I mean we left the studio with pretty much everything done other than background vocals and we did some some keys and stuff after. So it was like we. It was great because we left the studio and Sheldon pretty much immediately sent us what we did that day, which is so fun. You know, it's over Vancouver's, we're back Driving on the ferry and listening to the song we just did. This is so great, it sounds beautiful. And then we got together and, you know, figured out some nice key lines and just kind of overdubbed that. And Then the vocals did we do the vocals in your studio or was that that it was in?
Speaker 2:it was in my yeah, this is, we made a no, but we did background vocals of Sean's he was living downtown at the time and that we made like a little blanket fort through me in that with a SM 7b nice and did the harmonies and stuff like that. So it was, you know, there's a little fraction of that song that is very much DIY, that we carried over totally, which was, which was great, yeah, and it allowed us to not have to book another day in the studio to do this other stuff that we, you know, could easily do on our own hundred percent.
Speaker 1:So yeah, that skill set came in handy exactly.
Speaker 1:Yeah for sure Very cool. Yeah, yeah, we just did an episode pretty recently Can't remember what it was called story listeners we I just fly by the sea my pants with this stuff, but but it was essentially breaking down like what should you choose? Should you hire a producer? Should you self-record? Should you find a hybrid approach? And Benny and I both agree despite you know hosting this episode or this podcast called self-recording band podcast that hiring a team of professionals is the most surefire way to get a really great product right, like it's. That's why you're hiring them and that's what they have a proven track record of doing. Now, a lot of people can't afford that, so they still need to find a way to get great results, which is what you did. You like you're the poster child of this podcast. You've kind of like done it all these different ways and and seeing you do it in a hybrid way like that is Super cool as well, I think also even working in the studio, especially with Sheldon there.
Speaker 2:Like it I mean he played such a huge role if it felt, you know, we were producing it with him like he did a really great job of like you know, we we knew what we wanted and when Something came up where we were indifferent about an opinion and he was very quick to speak up, so it was great, like we really like guided it and then he was there to just make sure that things were moving like Properly and he made decisions when we didn't know how to make a decision, yeah, so let's talk about that more, because when you're self-recording, the not having a producer, yeah, it's like the biggest challenge, right?
Speaker 1:Oh, yes. Yes, it is, you need somebody to tell you like hey, that was a great take. Yeah, like good fill for your third course. You know that was awesome. Do that again, or? Or we don't need to do it again. Yeah, but you don't have that one. It's just you in a room, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's not always the best option wins sometimes. Sometimes it's the loudest option that wins. When you're producing as a band and you know one person has an opinion, it's nice to have the producer to kind of like, you know, check all of that. I mean, maybe this is, maybe this is the right decision, or maybe we should try this, and you know it's so. It's so great doing stuff on our own because you know time is money. We can spend as much time as we want doing a DIY, but it's nice to have someone that's kind of like Checking the clock and be like maybe we should move on or maybe we just need to hone on, hone in on this part. So definitely pros to both or pros console.
Speaker 1:So definitely yeah. What about pre-production? What was what? Was there a pre-production on this album? New album.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, which we have also learned from doing the last album. You know, the better the scratch, better the demo is before going in. Obviously it's gonna lead to a better end product. So, like right now, you know, we have a we have without one song, mona Lisa out, and then we have two being mixed and master right now, by the time I guess this podcast probably comes out, we'll have a new song black weather will be up, but we're working on. We're really heavy in like demo motor now. So we want to just get as many demos together as possible and, like right now, we've been, you know, bashing out one that we're just like, you know it's almost there, but this is the one little part in the course that we just need to smooth over. So the more time we spend on creating these demos, the better it's gonna be in the end and we just come in, use those demos of scratch tracks and gives us a better idea in this studio, right? So yeah, pre-production is huge.
Speaker 1:So for sure. So declare by you are Essentially recording your own scratch tracks and fire Lee entirely like flashing out the song. Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's pretty much like what we were doing before with you, it's except for we're just not paying to get those mixed and master day, we're just going into a studio and retracking stuff. Yeah, obviously things change in the process, but the closer you get going into the studio, the better it is as long. I mean as much as we wish we had the money to go into a studio and just hash out ideas, for we can't do that. I'll be the next album. Yeah, hopefully. So yeah, I mean. Any Objections on that?
Speaker 3:no man you if you hit it perfectly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you nailed it perfectly with all everything you said, in my opinion so let's do like the the 30 second, what your home studio setups are. I will start with you, brad, because you've actually got a pretty cool setup.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I just have a, basically a garage separate from my house which is like 20 by 20, and then I built a room inside of a room. Inside of that everything floats, all the drywall does, and the floor floats as well, and, yeah, I just basically have and scarlet 18 I 20 interface in there with some mics and the room is controlled with some sound baffles that I built from you from help from you. So that's pretty much my room. It's. It's simple and I think that's the cool thing is it's meant to be simple for others to know as well. It's not this complicated thing that you have to do to get a cool sound, to just record your drums in. Obviously going to a studio and is really Exciting and getting that big sound, but yeah, you can get by doing it at your house and definitely you just got to know what you're doing and Pick Malcolm's brain.
Speaker 1:Well, you say pick my brain, but I remember I sent you our episode with yes Go lohan, which so yes goes brain was really the mastermind there. Yeah, so that's great. So how many actual like Mike inputs are you running on your drum kit?
Speaker 3:I'm running eight, yeah and that's maxed out there. Right, it's completely maxed out, and I'm, I think at the time before I was a little worried about doing eight. That was a lot to start with, and now I'm kind of at a point where I could probably take a couple more on, but obviously that includes Getting more, a bigger interface and stuff. But yeah, this is it fits exactly what we need for what we're doing right now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's awesome and, and some of my favorite drums to mix came out of that set up. Like you know, I there's. It's funny, we were just talking before recording this about Vogue villains new album. You guys played with Vogue villains. We tracked that drum sound with, or with ten mics, I think. So again, not a not a huge chain, and you did your album with eight and I'm like no less happy with those than a lot of like 20 to 30 channel setups I've been sent to mix. It's like you really don't. You just need a small amount done, right, yeah, yeah. So there's, you've got what you need, I think, but you could always go this fun going with more, isn't it?
Speaker 3:absolutely Ending journey, never ending journey of learning refresh me.
Speaker 1:What are you using to track into?
Speaker 3:I'm using just the reaper. Yeah, yeah, just very simple. I didn't want to go too crazy, I just wanted the basic stuff to just understand how to use the program, because it was a lot to think about it first and, yeah, I think I'm at a point where I want to upgrade to the next thing and I want from there I'm pretty great too.
Speaker 1:Like there's, you can do anything with reaper, you'll be fine. I'll see if you've already got figured out. I just stick with it personally, yeah. But that brings me to my next question Lucas, what are you?
Speaker 2:using.
Speaker 1:I'm using logic, right and you two are primarily the two Recording engineers of the band well, miles, our new bass player.
Speaker 2:He's been with us for a year and a half now. Yeah, he's kind of taken on a bunch of this role too, and he also uses logic as well.
Speaker 1:All right. So we got a couple of logic and a reaper kind of thing. And has that ever been an issue having different does I?
Speaker 3:Haven't ran into anything myself.
Speaker 2:I mean, we always just you know send the tracks back and forth. We don't really send the project. So, yeah, we haven't never had an issue with it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's, that's the answer. I knew it was, but the I get people asking that question all the time, being like, oh, I need to upgrade to the signal.
Speaker 2:You know it's fine, you just send the way files.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so awesome. And Lucas, talk me through your current.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's very simple. It's just a. Also I have a scarlet. It's just a 4i4, nothing too crazy. It was like I don't know 400, 500 bucks at the time or something like that, and then obviously going into a DI box, it's a radial pro, the green one.
Speaker 1:The blue one. I think it's like that one. You got right there. Oh cool Yep.
Speaker 2:J48. Yes, awesome, yeah that. And then I just have you know a bunch of different plugins I use. I got a bunch of the neural, neural DSPs, corey Wong plug-in, and then the Nolly. I cycle through those. Yeah, the whole first album was actually recorded with a Strymon. Was it a radium?
Speaker 3:It's called a little amp symbol.
Speaker 2:I said it. Pretty much everything I had sent you on the album was was that yeah, and then you ended up probably reamping majority of it, or what not? Or you? Use, I guess for crooked judge you had. That's what you had to use.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I guess I used the radium on that. But funny enough, the two amp sims I I think probably exclusively used was the Corey Wong and the Nolly neural.
Speaker 2:They're incredible, they're awesome. That's what I play through every day when I'm practicing.
Speaker 1:And that's what I use, have you? We're going down a wrap over here listeners, but have you tried their Morgan?
Speaker 2:amp suite. I have not, but I've been looking at. I get ads for. I'm gonna get even more ads for. It's been searching through their whole thing, and now you take this one comes up, you'll buy that. They're just, it just makes sense.
Speaker 1:It's so good man. Yeah, it's so awesome. I love it.
Speaker 2:So yeah, that's what my. That's pretty much. It that into logic pro, got a couple guitars and that's, but it's nothing crazy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, sweet, for sure sweet, and then that's fifth, or sorry, sm Seven yeah, for like doing Sean's and Miles's vocals and stuff.
Speaker 2:I have the SM seven B right into a little cloud lifter to keep up with my focus, right. Mm-hmm, and yeah, it's great. It's pretty much all that I need for my end to take the rest of the band on and Brett has the drums covered actually. So I mean, we were talking about Mona Lisa earlier there, but the other, we did two songs that we sent you. Yeah, we did two of those songs in a day, all just essentially the bed tracks, just you know, rhythm guitar, drums and bass, and we did like the rest of our guitars and Keys and vocals, all in Brett studio. So we actually playing for the first time Almost ever, I guess with wet future. Anyways, we mic'd up the amps ourselves because we had the treated room. Obviously we always have a DI. Yeah, but yeah, we. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, but yeah, that that was just a 57 on it. Yeah, it was great, killer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that the two and again listeners. These two new songs. One of them's probably out by the time you're hearing this, but not not guaranteed. Yeah, it'll be out soon anyways, if it's not. But so on those two songs, there was even more of a hybrid approach of self recording and the studio recording.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would say it also came back to a bit of a money thing. But we also, on one of the songs like there's, there's, you know, for example, there's like some guitar manies and stuff like that, I really wanted to like lock down and it kind of like it's nice to, you know, get these bed tracks back and kind of sit on them for a couple weeks, you know, just play around with them to find the best tones and the best Direction for you know, all the other instruments. Yeah, rather than Experimenting in a studio and you're spending so much money.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yes, you're prioritizing what that studio time.
Speaker 2:I understand exactly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it sounds like that's mostly All of you set up playing together. Yeah, and then I'm assuming you're cutting vocals with, with Sheldon, your producer?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we do, and this is actually. This is a big eye-opener for me too. I mean, when we went in there to do Mona Lisa, it was exciting, like, oh yeah, what, like what Mike's you can like pull out for the Vocals and stuff like that. This is so cool. And then he pulls out a 7b. I'm like, oh, this is exactly what we used on the album Like why are we here?
Speaker 2:I mean the room and everything sounds amazing, and he had a condenser picking up obviously stuff too, but like the main, he was singing into a 7B and it was just like. This is what I have. We could do this. It's nothing crazy, right? So yeah, obviously he's going into a chain of compressors or whatever, or two that's. We don't have the means to capture.
Speaker 1:But I was going to say the the outboard gear selection in that studio is incredible right.
Speaker 2:But then that's the thing too. You know, as he's mixing it, he's mixing it through a lot of that same gear too, right? So we send them the same stuff and then he puts it through that. It sounds incredible, yeah.
Speaker 1:And I mean you guys have been in this game long enough to know that it's garbage in, is garbage out and luckily you guys aren't garbage.
Speaker 2:Thank you, that's a whole that helps a lot.
Speaker 1:Well, we talked about this when you showed up here we were talking, I mentioned that I'd listened to the songs he sent me and they sound awesome and they're really cool. And then you're like, yeah, they're quite different than our last stuff, but I think that, especially with with Sean, your singer's voice, which is so unique that no matter what you do, you know, barring going to a death metal song, it's still going to sound like wet future to me. Yeah, you know, it still sounds like you all have your own sound, but like that voice really allows you to to first genres, which is which is awesome.
Speaker 1:But as a mixer it's also like if you recorded Sean on the SM7B, which I'm sure is the one he sang into that's right in front of you, or that SM58 on Brett right now, or this rope procaster in front of me, he would sound awesome on all of them. He's just a great sounding singer.
Speaker 3:He's very gifted. He makes it easy. It's awesome he does. I think that's he gives us that what you're trying to say too. He gives us that inability to write songs like Crooked Judge and then go all the way to something like Chump Change and it has that versatility where you know that's really cool. It caters to all of our music needs because we all have different influences. So it really is a cool thing, like you're saying.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, no, that is powerful For sure, very much so.
Speaker 3:Yeah, for sure, gives it a unique sound too, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100%, 100% Okay. So anything you learned from or like yeah, like things you picked up from doing the studio route more than just the ones with your first single, or like things that were done differently than you expected working with a new producer Good question, you want to take that on for?
Speaker 3:Brett, yeah, I mean, I think when we first went in and recorded Tough and Up, you know we weren't really a band and we've never jammed together, so the experience was just kind of get the best track that we could. So when we were there I feel like it was a lot of try stuff out, get it done as soon as possible, Whereas when we went to the other place we all kind of knew each other more and we were more foundation as a band. So I think when we were to go and record it was a little bit more cohesive as a unit and I liked that more and I think that that enabled the product to be better at the end of the day. So I feel like that played a huge factor into it Very cool Did.
Speaker 1:Was there any like like coaching? That like was kind of like, you know, like what was what's held and pulling takes out of you in a way that was new, for example, this is for me, I'm curious.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I always love hearing people do it. Yeah, definitely a bit. He's such an easygoing guy, so it's like we're playing the tracks and I'd be like, oh yeah, I'm happy with that. He's like he got another one in you, yeah, and same with Brett too. Yeah, yeah, do it again, Do it again.
Speaker 3:You can do better than that One more Vice versa. I think we're all kind of at that point, too, where we want to be so happy with what we're doing in there that it's so important to us, that it's so nice that somebody else cares as much as we do. And we love that, especially working with somebody like that. So it's like having two brains.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it comes down to sort of accountability, like when we're recording on our own, it's easy for us to be like, oh yeah, that's good. Or you know, the worst is that's good enough you know, but have him there and be like try it again, do it again and it's you know, it always is going to yield a better product.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you've got this like barometer telling you there's like a minimum quality level that he's not going to let it go below.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, that's 100%. Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1:Were you tracking to a click with the stuff then?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, always to a click, yeah, always For sure, cool.
Speaker 1:I mean I'm pro that for sure. Sweet. Okay, now is there. Maybe we just get nerdy here and we talk about the technical setups of what's going on at a studio like that, because I mean you were maxing out your technical abilities on the DIY album, right, just out of necessity, really. So what looked different on this? Like you know, professional studio level Start with drums.
Speaker 3:I guess, yeah, drums is very big. I've noticed that, like, my room is a very small room but when you go to something like Monarch the room is very big and I think he had 20 something mics on my drums at one point for our last two songs and that was pretty intense. So I mean something like that. I like going to the studio for the drum sound if I can capture a bigger sound, but at the end of the day, like just gear wise, the gear was obviously way times better than my stuff at my house. But yeah, I guess I could say that. You know, it all depends at the end of the day. If you're, if you can track it good and you're getting a good sound at your house, it's gonna kind of do the same thing. That's my opinion.
Speaker 1:All right, cool, cool and okay. So I mean for you, brett, it's kind of almost. It is gonna be kind of the same, but it's gonna be mic'd up drums, which is what you're used to Totally. But for you you got to have an amp going instead of recording through a DI. So was that like a very different feel for you, or was it kind of similar again, because you're normally listening to an amp?
Speaker 2:I mean, I would play in the control room amps in another room. Obviously, you know the tones coming out of that room were phenomenal. We don't need to get down the whole comparing DI to amp. We've, you know, at this point we probably all know there's a bit of a difference there. But it's, you know, you can get the same, almost the same product at the end, right, so you know, it was great because you can kind of we had a couple of amps going but like, check you know, check them both. Like oh yeah, let's go with that one.
Speaker 2:But it's, you know, standard thing. It's just a mic on the amp and then there's a condenser in the room and that was pretty much it. So it's, you know, pretty it's similar to how we would do it, but we would go DI root type of thing. So it's not drastically different. But the atmosphere makes for a big difference. Right, when you're playing in the control room, you're playing for a producer there rather than playing in my living room or something and recording. It's just such a different feel and it's gonna, you know, have a different product.
Speaker 1:I think Right Now were you in the control room. Yeah, okay, I pictured you in the live room all set up there, kind of things, oh well, I'm talking for some overdub stuff.
Speaker 2:I guess.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I guess that yeah, both.
Speaker 2:Because when we're doing obviously live off the floor, then we're all together too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, cool, all right, do you I? You can't really speak for the other guys, miles and Sean, but do you think the studio experience versus the DIY experience really transformed it for anybody else? Like, the reason I bring this up is because I, unlike a lot of people, like really don't like tracking live as a band. Okay, I would way rather record my parts in isolation. For sure, I'm happy to like do a bed track session, but I'm like I'm gonna be like all right, these are all getting deleted, yeah.
Speaker 2:You can use it as like a scratcher or something. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:I'm here to help the drummer along or whoever is recording, but then I'm gonna go and like sit in the control room, get my tone dialed in and track keepers there, kind of thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean with Mona Lisa we did do it like live off the floor like that, and then it was essentially a mission. After you go through each track and then if it's missed you just correct it. So I think for the most part the bass was all there and then there might have been like a fill or something that we needed to like really hone in on. So he would like kind of dial that in after. Yeah, Same with the guitars and stuff like that. But like for the most part of the bed tracks sort of stayed as is Cool, which was great. Yeah, definitely Awesome.
Speaker 1:Any, issues like I'm trying to think of an example with you, lucas. Yeah, we've run, like we've worked together a lot, yeah, over different projects, and I can't react. You would. I can't think of any Meltdowns that happened in our projects where it was like we just can't get this. Yeah, but that does happen occasionally. Worse, especially if it's like a new experience for somebody like the most common. Brett, you're an amazing drummer, so it hasn't happened to you, I'm sure, in a long time anyways, but like when you first get a drummer into the studio and they've never recorded to a click before, that's, that can be rocky.
Speaker 1:Yeah right, 100% was there any rocky scenarios making this big change totally off topic a little bit.
Speaker 2:I remember first time being in the studio with you, with the shepherd at the time, and our drummer at the time Came in and then we you're like, okay, we're gonna press record. Now he's like how's the song start?
Speaker 3:I love that.
Speaker 2:But you know, I can't think of any rig, really big issues we came across, other than it's just the whole conversation of time is money. So you know, we're really just trying to be as efficient as possible, right, and if we had more time, we would probably maybe spend a bit more time, maybe crafting a tone a little bit, maybe working on a part, if it feels a little different from playing it live off the floor in the studio there. So that's kind of like the only con I am seeing, yeah, is just the fact that you know, when your DIY the court, I mean, the great thing is that you can just sit on it for weeks. You can play the same thing over and over and over and over again, right, when you have so much money on the line for the day and there's actually a schedule, which is obviously. It's good to have a schedule too, but there's some pressure, there's a, there's a pressure and there is and that can also affect Positively or negatively.
Speaker 2:You know the end result hundred percent.
Speaker 1:There's like it can, it can get the best out of you yeah, but you're like I gotta get this done, yeah, or and then you can get more done than you thought you ever could in a day yeah. But it also like, like you said, there's like this hitting cost of like well, I probably would have liked to play with different guitar amps a little longer. You know, that's just it. Luxury stuff, yeah, and that's the thing is.
Speaker 2:Like you know, we went in like, for the most part, I know I tossed up between like a couple guitars or something, but like I would love to go through every guitar in the studio, yeah, and just check everything. I don't go through all different pedal combinations, amp combinations and stuff like that but you know, with our budget is just not really practical. So we went in with, like you know, a pretty good idea of what we're gonna use, how we're gonna track and all that. But it would be fun and it could be definitely beneficial to be able to really experiment in the studio, which is, you know, we did a little bit, but not as much as maybe we would have liked, right, but so that's it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I guess that's where the pre-production comes in exactly. Yeah, figure that out. Yeah, on your own time.
Speaker 2:Definitely yeah, but yeah it the pressure thing. So I mean, the more prepared you are, the better the demo, the better the scratch, the less pressure you're gonna feel because you know, you're gonna know exactly what's going on, right, so yeah, I mean just to chime in quickly on that.
Speaker 3:Lucas, I agree with all that stuff too. But at the same time, malcolm, the pressure thing that you're talking about, of like Going into the studio and you have to have everything organized ready to go Whether you're doing stems or if you're just doing it full Band jam that day and getting live off the floor I feel like there's that pressure and time crunch that you have to be perfect, because then when you go home and you listen back, you're like oh, I just needed a bit more time to actually flush this idea out of a workout. And that's the thing that I tend to Make sure that I'm a hundred percent organized to go into the studio for that, so that that kind of doesn't happen. Right, but that's what I loved about the DIY is, I could actually flush ideas out on a song for like a few weeks and then listen back and try things. So I'm kind of either way with that. But the pressure thing is you mentioned that, so I wanted to acknowledge that as well, for sure.
Speaker 2:And just so much pro there to doing a DIY, especially with, like the drums and stuff, because we just, you know you would just send us tracks. We'd listen to it and be like, oh, maybe try this, try this Right. And it could be, you know, it would happen over like a month or two where, like, we're just you're just sending us drum tracks or something like that. But obviously that's not possible in the studio.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, not without more budget.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wouldn't it be great to just like live in a studio for a month?
Speaker 2:Oh, and that's honestly I pitched this to the mandal like so. Much too is like this. Just like rent an Airbnb cabin somewhere.
Speaker 2:Just get rent all the gear we need. It's got a producer and it's just cut a bunch of songs out in the wilderness or something. I would love that be unreal. Yeah, yeah, actually one of your episodes Maybe it was a guy recording theory of a dead man. I was doing that. That's how I'm familiar to you. They went into the California and rented this big barn house or something like that I'm remembering.
Speaker 1:Jill Zimmerman Recorded the vocals with three days grace out of cap and or something like that.
Speaker 2:Okay, this was like it's got to be here, yeah.
Speaker 1:I've got like kids on the way or something. I remember what it was, but he's like I'm not coming to your city to make the record, yeah, yeah. So they built like a booth in this, yeah, and it's like one of the walk-in closets or something, and just wow, I made it work.
Speaker 2:I love that. I mean, that's kind of, that's kind of you know, make such a great product and then just be so fun to just be in that situation because it's less time constraint, yeah, and it's just you know, the freedom and the comfort of just you know Build a little home for a bit. Yeah, just you know making magic that way. Yeah, I would love to do that one day.
Speaker 1:I think that's such a cool idea too, just like creative Circumstances where there is still actually a deadline, because it's like, okay, we got a week here, we still have to actually get something done. Yeah, we should have some objectives in mind for how much you're gonna get done. But it's like a whole new environment, hopefully extremely more affordable than whatever other scenarios. And you know it's there's gonna be cons, it's not gonna be. You know You're not gonna have a control room with any kind of isolation Airbnb unless you lock out huge. But yeah, it's doable.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Yeah, it's like the magical DIY route. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Awesome. I don't know if I like. I mean, what have we not talked about about this album? I Feel like we've got it this. It's cool like you've done it both ways. You've got your your kind of pros and cons for both the really. In the reality, it sounds to me like you're leveraging the, the pros you found from doing a DIY and just applying them into your now Like professionally recorded album. You're using it for for pre-pro, you're using it to pick up the loose ends. I mean, I mean bandarascals, my band cut a record for tens and tens of thousands of dollars.
Speaker 1:Yeah we made the most expensive album I've ever heard of. Yeah, as an indie band. Yeah, and I still had to record a crap ton at my home studio. We were talking about I had a tiny home.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and.
Speaker 1:I've recorded like all of the backing vocals for our album were recorded in that tiny home with blankets all around us and stuff like that. It's like it never. I don't think that is an option to not do nowadays.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure. I mean, why wouldn't you right? I mean, it's like the perfect hybrid. You go in and you get the best drum sound and you know Acoustic room for vocals and stuff like that and like, yeah, why wouldn't you want to overdub it and, you know, really spend time on it on your own to make it like the best possible thing?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, we just got to utilize the, the rented space, for its strengths. Yeah, first and foremost, and your producer, who's, you know, also being paid to be there for sure, for their strengths. Yeah, and it's like well, if I've already written, you know the, the harmony line, yeah, we can just cut that on our own. Or I've already wrote in the solo yeah, I can definitely record that on my own.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm fine, kind of yeah, so it's a good approach. It is definitely yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm excited to hear more of this album.
Speaker 2:I'm excited for you to hear more too.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 3:I don't know if we can chime in on this, but what we can but, it's. I like how you're saying a hybrid like that's literally what we've been doing now is Taking the best of both worlds and trying to make a product out of that at the end and, I think, moving forward after our next two songs, when we go into the studio. Next we are going to we there was talks about all DIY minus the drums.
Speaker 3:Yeah, interesting. So there's talks about stuff like that happening. So you know we are talking about a hybrid thing, even more in-depth, yeah, so a different approach than what we have done.
Speaker 1:Yeah exactly awesome. Yeah, I think a lot of bands would struggle to even picture that. But it's because you have the skills to do DIY that yeah. Like, yeah, we could just cut. We can slice this pie up however we want.
Speaker 3:Yeah it's like a charm set. You know you can have an acoustic set, but you can also have some nice electronics in there and sampled in at the right times for the right scenario.
Speaker 1:Yeah totally so percent. Okay, so let's talk through this theoretical scenario. Is that? What are the advantages you see from doing that?
Speaker 3:the advantages I Mean. I think that's where I can kind of zone in on the drums and focus in on the drum sound and get exactly what I need and not Be rushed so that the other guys can get their jobs done in the studio and we can get a good drum sound and then the guys can take their, Take it to where they need and have as much time as they need to but at least the structure and the foundation is there.
Speaker 3:It's like a house as long as the concrete foundation is there, the voice can work from that. Yeah, and I love that approach and so yeah.
Speaker 1:I think it's a great idea first and foremost. Again, I do love the drum sounds. We managed to get over your record.
Speaker 1:Of course, but they they do sound like Like we've made like the world's best Garage rock drum sound. You know like it was like punchy and like it. You can tell it's a small room, which for some songs is the perfect sound. Yeah, don't get me wrong, but but if you want it to sound like a bigger room, it's tricky, right, so that I think you're you're onto something smart there. Now. There, actually, pulling this off like is another advantage that you can then just try and cut like a bunch of songs in a day, kind of thing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know. So that's what we're helping now.
Speaker 1:We're renting the studio for one or two days for an entire album. You know that's kind of cool, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, also Sheldon, our producer. You know he, he also holds us accountable too, like even when we were first going back and we're gonna do some guitars and stuff on our own, he's just like who's producing your guitars on your own kind of thing, like you want. You know he's producing, he wants to make sure that he's getting the best tracks back to him. So we kind of like you know, earned his respect that we can do it on our own. Yeah, he had to prove it to him, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah it's gonna represent his body of work as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah for sure, and he just want to deal with some bad tracks that have to be edited that we did to you in the past.
Speaker 1:Sheldon up for success here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, that's rad, I think that's a cool, cool approach. So, yeah, you'd then go choose a studio for the drums on your looking for, cut the album I'm entirely hopefully kind of thing. And then, yeah, to split off back to both villains who we mentioned earlier on this podcast Similar kind of thing. They, they had made records before I'd ever worked with them, I think two full albums, I'm pretty sure. Oh, wow, they, they read a lot, yeah, but they like one of the first things that came up when we were having our Conversations about working together me losing the record was that they wanted to do their own vocal production because they're like, so, so picky the pickiest I've ever, ever worked with by far and it's like if they're renting my time and potentially even a studio's time, they'll never have enough time. Yeah, vocals how they want them. Sure, they'll think it's just not humanly possible. Yeah, under any budget. I don't think Lincoln Park could afford to do it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, as much time as they want you know.
Speaker 1:So we're like. I was just like. That sounds amazing. Yeah, you do the vocals, I'll be, I'll do everything else. Yeah, and then you handle the vocals. That sounds perfect to me for sure.
Speaker 1:It ended up being that they did their own percussion, all those, their own vocals and a couple guitar overdubs, oh and, and all their keys actually as well. Okay, so then we did drums, guitars, bass and and that was kind of like all I had to focus on, kind of thing, and it was like, again, it allowed us to prioritize what we were focusing on while I was there with them. You know. It was like, well, we can afford to shoot out a couple guitars, yeah, this part of the song, because we don't have to worry about trying to squeeze in an album worth of vocals into this week as well, you know, so that's nice.
Speaker 1:It was it was fantastic, you know, and, and I think them having the foresight to know that they needed that to get it where they wanted. It was like Incredibly got wise of them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I'm not. I'm not a vocalist, by all means. So if I was gonna record vocals, I'd want to be probably doing it on my my own too, and not have the pressure of a producer there, right, and it's like you know that awesome obviously with also vocals too. It's such a personal thing now, like you know, you don't want to feel pressure when you're singing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, so I mean to be that devil's advocate, though.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm also not a vocalist and if, but if so if I had to sing and it was gonna be on an album I would make. I would not do it without a producer, because I need you to make sure yeah, it turns out half good For sure like I need somebody to get me there. Yeah, but they're good, they know they can pull it off they just need time yeah for sure and and to be able to take their time and not be rushed, kind of thing.
Speaker 1:Definitely, and yeah, so it was wise, so I could see this really working for you guys, just being like we know what we want. Yeah, we can pull it off. Let's go get the help where we need it.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, with them, we're not losing money by recording stuff on our own. Yeah 100%.
Speaker 1:You already got all the gear exactly, skills are good yeah it's awesome. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, brett Lucas, thank you so much. Thank you coming to chat with us again. Yeah, it's awesome having you guys back on the podcast. Some people may not know this, but we actually have like a mixing course on crooked judge, one of their songs that we we did years ago now Still my favorite one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that song.
Speaker 3:I love that song so much.
Speaker 1:It turned out so cool, I think. And yeah, so you guys are huge friends of the podcast. Love seeing you guys. You sure we'll do another one when you guys win your Juno or something.
Speaker 3:Oh, no pressure. Thank you so much, man. We appreciate you having us on and everything. Yeah, that's a wrap.