213: Noise Perfected: Making No-Compromise Records That Stand The Test Of Time - With Sam Pura

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Episode show notes:

Sam Pura is a record producer and audio engineer from Fremont, California. He owns and operates the Panda Studios and is the founder of Purafied Audio, a plugin company turning Sam's ideas and analog workflows into digital mixing tools that will inspire your creativity.

Sam Pura and his team at The Panda Studios are not just about immaculate results. Working with them is an experience.

At The Panda Studios you'll find a great live room, multiple mixing rooms / control rooms, and an amazing collection of gear, combining the best of both analog and digital. Plus a great collection of instruments and amps.

Sam Pura's discography includes breakthrough albums by Basement, The Story So Far, State Champs, Hundredth, and The Dangerous Summer, just to name a few.

He's known for his work on a lot of modern pop punk, punk rock and heavy records. But has also worked on many projects outside of these genres.

And finally, Sam also makes plugins! Purafied is the name of his company there and on this episode we talk about those tools for a bit, as well. 

Because those are some really unique and interesting ideas that Sam has turned into these plugins.

From Sam Pura's website: 

When you work with Sam, it becomes immediately apparent that he will relentlessly push your record to be the best he’s ever done, but for those who come prepared, the environment can be as inspirational as that feeling on release day. And, along with your record, you’ll leave The Panda Studios with a new best friend and a love of Topo Chico.

Let's dive in!

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For links to everything we've mentioned in this episode, as well as full show notes go to: https://theselfrecordingband.com/213
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If you have any questions, feedback, topic ideas or want to suggest a guest, email us at: podcast@theselfrecordingband.com

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

these people who are like trusting this process are people who are here to make art and really like, want to go through the experience of like making art together and like finding something that is like fulfilling and emotionally like gratifying, whereas, like other people who want to come in here and record their band and like make records, to, like go on tour, this process sounds totally unrealistic and like an ideal for them. Understandably, you know what I mean. Like there's a disconnect in there. Like I'm trying to make records, like that's one of my other favorite quotes, too is like a mutt-length thing. Like I'm not trying to record your band, I'm trying to make Star Wars.

Speaker 2: 0:35

This is the Self Recording Band Podcast, the show where we help you make exciting records on your own wherever you are DIY style, let's go. Hello and welcome to the Self Recording Band Podcast. I am your host, benedict Heijn. If you are new to the show, welcome. So stoked to have you. If you are already a listener, welcome back. Always good to have you as well. Of course, this show is both available on your favorite podcast platform, like Apple Podcasts, spotify, etc. Or on YouTube if you prefer video. So just in case you don't know Now, you know Now. Today we have a very special episode Again. We did quite a few interviews lately and I'm very excited about this.

Speaker 2: 1:18

Today's guest on our show is Sam Pura. Sam Pura is a record producer and audio engineer from California. He owns and operates the Panda Studios, which is a multi-room professional facility that offers really everything you need you know for tracking and mixing records. There's a great life room, there's multiple mixing rooms or control rooms, an amazing collection of gear combining the best of both analog and digital, plus a great collection of instruments and amps. So I haven't been there personally, but I've seen the pictures and Sam's posts and it looks really impressive. So I'm excited to talk about all that stuff, of course. And then Sam's discography includes, you know, records from bands like Basement the story so far State Champs, hundred, the Dangerous Summer, just to name a few.

Speaker 2: 2:03

He's known for his work At least, that's how I know about him. He's known for his work on a lot of modern I'd say pop, punk or punk rock or heavy records, but has also worked on many projects outside of those genres as well. So, finally, sam also makes plugins. Purified is the name of this company, and I hope we can talk about those tools for a bit as well, because those are really unique and interesting ideas that Sam has turned into these plugins. So I'm excited to talk about that as well.

Speaker 2: 2:30

Great tools for you guys, for you guys listening to this. Very creative and intuitive tools also, and also not something you see a lot from other companies, at least not the way they've done it, and I want to read some. Before I finally like introduce Sam to you and let him talk to you, I want to say I want to quote something from his website there, and that is on the website. It says when you work with Sam, it becomes immediately apparent that he will relentlessly push your record to the best he's ever done. But for those who come prepared, the environment can be as inspirational as that feeling on release day. And along with your record, you leave the Panda Studios with a new best friend and the love of Topo Chico. So I really love that one. That's great, hey, sam. Thank you for taking the time.

Speaker 1: 3:13

Absolutely. Thanks for having me out here. Yeah, I'm a big Topo Chico fan, and I think that last thing was written by my wife, who is a very smart writer.

Speaker 2: 3:24

Yeah, honestly, all the copy on your website is done pretty well. Like that's just yeah, great, whoever just done this. If that's your wife, kudos to her. Like that's great Thanks. Also, like as always, I'm not doing this by myself. I'm here with my friend and co-host from Canada, malcolm. Hello buddy.

Speaker 3: 3:40

How are you? Oh, I'm great man. Yeah, thank you, sam, appreciate you coming on. I've listened to podcasts that you've been on over the years and appreciated some of your work, and when I found out you were coming on, I went and found a playlist on Spotify of all your work that you put together. I think it's under your own profile, but it's pretty awesome, man, thank you. It's like damn, this is good. This whole catalog is awesome.

Speaker 1: 4:00

Thank you, yeah, I try to keep that thing extremely updated every time a new thing comes out there.

Speaker 3: 4:05

Nice, yeah, I got to do that. That's smart.

Speaker 2: 4:07

Good, good, yeah, totally Now, sam, before I say wrong again, or maybe I said it correctly, I don't know. One question that I've always been wondering is it Sam Pura or Sam Pura?

Speaker 1: 4:17

Because there is an equal amount of people for both the Pura. Yeah, yeah. Hence the purified, it all kind of leans into each other.

Speaker 1: 4:23

Yeah, but yeah, it's, funny because like I always say that as a kid, when I was in elementary school, we always had substitute teachers, and so they would. When they would do the roll call, they'd be like Samwell Buddha, like Sam Pura that's me. But everyone assumes that it's like Spanish or Italian, or even I think it even like traces back to being like a Swiss Italian. But yeah, it's oddly, it doesn't come from the Spanish or like Mexico region of what people think of Pura. Also, like when I got to Costa Rica, it's like Pura Vida, and so everyone just thinks my last name is Pura or Pura.

Speaker 2: 4:57

But yeah, it's just Pura, just purified, awesome Good. Thank you for clarifying that. What is behind you there, that diffuser wall that you have there? Is there guitar strings in there, or what is that?

Speaker 1: 5:07

Yeah, yeah, so, okay. So I'm glad you asked. So that's my big old grid diffuser here that was built by this guy, todd. I actually have the same thing above me, like above my desk, and then I also have the same thing in the live room, but it doesn't have the 703 panels behind it, it's just like a space coupler. But anyways, yeah, it's just like. That was the design that the guy who designed the treatment for this room, jeff Hedbeck that was like his design that he had on there, and so I put it up and then it just like it, became my, like my trinket wall where I have like all like my like important tools.

Speaker 1: 5:35

So like the main thing that you do see is all the guitar strings, and so I'm very religious about having the right strings for the right tuning of the songs. And like I had this experience once where I was like I was doing a record with that band 100th and the singer Chad like had this really like cool, like little small, like Mustang guitar, and they were doing like a more like downtuned thing. So I like put on, like you know, I got some, like you know, beefy string pack or whatever, and put it on it. He was like now this guitar sounds like shit, Like the edit I like. At that moment I was just like maybe we're not using the right strings for the like the tuning you know what I mean. Like so like that's what I like went down like the. There's like an Ernie Ball website or someone. Like someone does the string gauge thing, and so I determined what is the optimum gauge for every single note and I made a Google spreadsheet so that, like, if it's in the e tuning, I have the exact like gauges that I want, blah, blah, blah. And so I have an Ernie Ball like guys shout out to Tim Dove, he's my Ernie Ball dude, but like I'll hit him up and just be like hey, I want like 24 of each of these gauge strings and I just like have a big list and it and like there's no duplicates, or like there's no pointless ones, like they're only ones that actually work for the exact tunings of everything. So like, yeah, it's awesome.

Speaker 1: 6:47

So like that's like anytime I'm about to, like you know, set up my every tune guitar, I'm just like, all right, sick, let me just grab the right gauge strings. Then I just go to the town setting up the every tune guitar. It's ready to go there. But yeah, so I have like flashlights and like like my, like Ebo and my fucking capos and like all my fucking like standard tools, where I'm like you know what I need a capo, just grab it from the fucking wall. You know, I need a flashlight. Just got for the wall. Like no drawers, none of that type of shit, like everything is just like ready to go. So it looks pretty cool and it's got a bunch of pandas up in there and it's pretty fucking, it's pretty tight. So Awesome.

Speaker 3: 7:18

Just to clarify, on the guitar strings you're, you actually are buying from your your hookup at Ernie Ball. They're like individual strings, not not past. Yes, you're building your custom set. Yes, exactly.

Speaker 1: 7:28

And like even like websites like string joy and stuff like that that say that they do that right. Like it's not the right fucking gauge, like it's still not correct, they're still like just a couple of millimeters off, and like, and like they're all compensating for like, like slight, like player preference, performance things. You know what I mean. But like I find that every single time I match the gauge correctly, like there's never too much bottom on the guitar, it's never too bright, it never sounds like too thin, like it's like is the optimum like gauge for that way that note is supposed to respond.

Speaker 3: 7:55

So yeah, that's awesome.

Speaker 1: 7:56

That's my strings.

Speaker 2: 7:58

Do you know a guy called Diego Casillas?

Speaker 1: 8:01

Sounds familiar.

Speaker 2: 8:03

Yeah, he's used to be a guitar. I think he still is a guitar tech, but he's doing a lot of like live mixing or monitor mixing. Now I think it'll come right or something like that.

Speaker 3: 8:10

Yeah, yeah, he's doing a lot of yeah.

Speaker 2: 8:13

But he's done. He's done guitar tech stuff for Colin Britton and the couple of like bigger bands and stuff and like, yeah, and he, he did a guest workshop once for our platform and the sort of a guitar setup course actually that we have, and he talked a lot about the string ages and those calculators and how exactly what you just said and the importance of that, and so, yeah, we we take that really seriously as well. So it was yeah. Since then, definitely yeah, and yeah, it definitely makes a difference and that you know, for those guys and girls listening now, this is already showing you like how detail oriented and like you know how well Sam just does things.

Speaker 2: 8:51

This is part of I think this will will be an ongoing thing in this conversation, because everything that I've heard from you and other podcasts, interviews and just things that I see from you is always like there's no compromise, right, it's always you very much a perfectionist, I would say, but also you.

Speaker 2: 9:08

It seems to me that you have this good balance between being the perfectionist but then also making vibey records that are that have a character and are not necessarily like perfect, right, you know what I mean, but in the right way, and that kind of balance is really cool to me and this whole no compromise approach is interesting, because I appreciate that personally and I feel the same way about many of those things, but I also know how hard it can be to get artists to a believe that that this is important and then be to you know, follow these instructions and do it without, you know, losing fun and excitement and all of that. So I'm very much interested in how you're dealing with these things Because, for example, with these strings, now what if someone comes in with clearly the wrong string gauges but wants to use this, because this is what they always do, and now you have to convince them that it's actually better to use the gauges used, you know, as a gist? Yes, things like that.

Speaker 1: 9:58

Okay, so I'll give a direct answer for that, but before I I'll give a fun quote from Stu from Spirit World, who's one of my favorite artists that I work with, and when we were working on the first Spirit World record together, as we were like finishing reamping and like getting to, like you know, like now we're basically mixed, prepped, and like like our recording process is done and we're ready to start mixing, he was just like pacing around as we were like reamping and he was like had his big smile on his face and he like said to me he goes. You know, I always trusted and I always believed, but I never fully understood and like that's like my process.

Speaker 1: 10:32

You know, by the way, this is my intern and assistant, aaron, who's so, rudely, is interrupting us right now. Aaron, you want to meet another modello because you're best friends and then hang out with Mike until I finish this. Thanks, dude.

Speaker 1: 10:43

That's how I talked about this is get out of here. So, like point is is like I'm a very detail oriented guy and so, like you know, if we come into like a scenario like like you're saying that a guy has his set of strings that he wants to use Okay, well, that implies that, like number one, we're going to use his guitar and like like that then we have to have the whole conversation about ever tune and like how I use ever tune and why I get it like use ever tune, and so like like to you know, the whole point is is like I have these things that are all put in place and like these processes that we've come to, because, like there's a really good like Steve Albini article that I have hanging up in a bathroom here that like I like to like look at a lot and I haven't hanging up in there to like remind me of like this, like really great point that he makes. But it's basically, like you know, some new fucking idiot like records vocals and that does a double and is like oh my God, doubling, I'm going to double every vocal and like, oh my God, I use this kick on, like this EQ on this, and so I'm going to do that every time. And so, like, you eventually get to these points where, like, like, like, as the quote says, like water falling out of the sky and hitting you in the head is like the most exciting thing, because you're so like new and you're so stupid. So, like, like, eventually, I you know like you get to a point where, like, what he calls is the middle, where, like, there is no highs and there is no lows, and, like, what we do is work and like it becomes into.

Speaker 1: 11:55

I've been here and I know how exciting that was, I know how demoralizing that was and I know the best way, through this, to make the most efficient use of our time and to make the best record possible.

Speaker 1: 12:07

And so, like, things like you know, these string gauges and things like the EverTune and things like that, like those are all conversations that I like have to have with people who don't really understand it, but it's like there is a specific reason we have landed into this workflow because we know it is going to help us be the most efficient and it's going to help us make you the best record for your budget within the amount of time that you have available to be able to put into it.

Speaker 1: 12:30

You know, and so like, right, like a really good example of this is like I've been I got these new Ray Bang glasses and I've been doing like Instagram live like kind of recently, just kind of like smoking weed and tracking and just I haven't like rolling live and so everyone could see through my fucking glasses and see like what I'm seeing.

Speaker 1: 12:46

And so, like a lot of people don't really understand like my tracking workflow and how I do things and like they're like blown away by the process of like me like tab the transiting, editing and like doing these quantizations and stuff like that and like all that stuff. Like, like people are like who taught you that? How'd you learn that? It's like that was created by me working with someone who needed my help to help them get to the finish line, you know, and so, like all of these methodical, detail oriented things are being so it's all a product of me being so present in the moment and like trying to identify the absolute best way forward to reach the like the end result that everyone here is trying to get to, you know.

Speaker 2: 13:25

That totally makes sense. However, that makes sense, but do people then actually follow that and believe it?

Speaker 1: 13:31

when you explain it like that, I mean it's very convincing the way you say it, thankfully now like I have like a good enough track record where a lot of people are like I'm coming to you because of this record, so I trust you and I'm fucking do this and like, and also, more importantly, like a lot of these like people that I like continue to work with their repeat clients and like they fucking fully get the process now and then they want to. They're like let's go even further and let's go even weirder. Like a good example is like like we're working on the spirit world record right now and for the last two records that we did for them, like we programmed all the drums, like got them all perfect. And then we hired Thomas Pridgen, one of my like great friends and like one of the best drummers like ever alive today in this type of like modern rock genre of drumming. We had him come and play on both the records and like he had him methodically like learn and like listen to every single like section of it and like we'd be like hey, you're missing this crash hit and this like extra fucking like kick hit, like so detail oriented and like we got super sick results.

Speaker 1: 14:24

And now that we like are doing our third record, it's like, well, what can we do that's even cooler. Well, and that's where I'm like why don't we just like get to a point where we're just like let's just record, just kick, only kick. I don't even want to play Tom's, I don't want to play snare. Let's record just snare, just the end, like. And then at that point people are like, well, why don't you just sample it? Because that's stupid. I don't want to sample it. I want to do something different. And I want to do something that like I want to remove the human bleed and the natural like. I don't want this drum set to sound like a drummer playing in a room performing drums. I want it to sound like and I don't want it to sound like some plugin that is trying to emulate a drummer in a room playing drums. I want us to do something new and totally unique and different and so like if I had pitched that to any band that had like never worked with me, they'd be like what is this Like? Why doesn't our drummer just sit on the drum set and play that?

Speaker 1: 15:11

But after two of these records, stu is just like what can we do?

Speaker 1: 15:14

That's going to fucking like make this so fucking wild and different, like this is what we can do and so then, like that's the type of shit is, like we explore and we have the endurance to do that because we have people who fully trust the process and fully trust like the end and like also, these are like. This implies that these people who are like trusting this process are people who are here to make art and really like want to go through the experience of like making art together and like finding something that is like fulfilling and emotionally, like gratifying, whereas, like other people who want to come in here and record their band and like make records, to like go on tour, this process sounds totally unrealistic and like an ideal for them. Understandably, you know what I mean. Like there's a disconnect in there. Like I'm trying to make records Like that's one of my other favorite quotes too is like a mutt-length thing. Like I'm not trying to record your band, I'm trying to make Star Wars.

Speaker 3: 16:04

Yeah, right, yeah, totally makes sense, I agree.

Speaker 1: 16:07

And again, if you hadn't been through any of this process. That quote would make no sense to you and be like what do you mean?

Speaker 1: 16:13

You know what I mean, but you guys are like I totally understand what you're saying, you know, of course. So like it just like, thankfully, like you know the people who are coming to me like again, either one trust me because of my work to have like been through the ringer where they're. Like you know, I like I had I worked with a guy who recorded my band and now I like want you to like produce us and like Make us fucking sick. So, like you know people like that doesn't really happen too often as the point, and I like I don't really have people that come in and be like you know what the fuck are you doing here? I don't I don't know if I agree with this.

Speaker 1: 16:39

You're, in a means, so like the other band that I've been working with, which is like the first band that ever put me on the map, called heavy, heavy Lolo, and so we're making and like are like a full-length album now and it's been like 20 years since. Like we worked together on stuff and like we're fucking like just Recording guitars and doing drums and like the guitar player, he's just like dude, you're insane. Like you're so fucking methodical and you're so fucking like everything that you do is like the most time-efficient thing that you've done, like it's like crazy to watch you work, and so it's like it's tight that like guys like that can fully appreciate and understand what I do, as opposed to be like confused by it, or like fucking like overwhelmed by it you know what I mean or like like this guy's not listening to me and I like why am I doing this thing? Instead, they're just like just shut up and do exactly what Sam says, because this fool is like on one and our shit is sounding so Secured in, so it's tight.

Speaker 1: 17:27

Like those are. Like those are the people that I want to work with. Those are the experiences I like to have. Like those are the type of records that I like making you know.

Speaker 3: 17:33

It is insane how much of a difference, in my opinion, the product turns out like, how much better things turn out when there is that trust in Like okay, you're the person that's ultimately capturing and creating the sounds, yeah, we're here to play and maybe be more in charge of the creative side Not that the producer or mixer or engineer can't also be involved creatively but like that trust in my Experience is like that's there's like at least a 25 percent to 50 percent Increasing quality when there is that level of trust absolutely 100%.

Speaker 2: 18:06

By the way, shout out to Eugene he just entered the backstage here, in case you're seeing that as well. Sam, I opened the backstage link here, which is not public, but it's the coaching students in our program. They got exclusive access to this. They they're not on camera or nothing, but they can ask questions in the chat if they have any for you if they come up.

Speaker 2: 18:23

So just so you know, hey, eugene, get to see you there, great. So yeah, you definitely had to earn. This, though, is what I'm getting here, and it's it's me makes sense, right, you have to take the trust and all of that, and you and I get this point. People know that what you do works, and so this, of course, they then trust you and and are more likely to to explore things like that, right?

Speaker 3: 18:43

I got something I really want to quickly jump in with, because I'm referring to me that the people listening to this might not know how specific you are, so we've got to get into some details about your tracking methods and techniques that might really surprise people and, like the, I think the most famous one that I know of is that you famously track guitars without hearing an app. You are listening to the di's, correct? Yes?

Speaker 1: 19:07

and I still continue to do that. That's kind of changed a little bit more With like. So the spirit world another perfect example. So we've like made two records. We've made that process of doing recording and like playing through that, and like With purified, we made a plugin of our amp tone that or of our chain that we had gotten on the last record. So like now we can, like you know, play through it, monitor through like a familiar tone and stuff like that, and so on this record like it's like all right, we like now, like he like at the end of the day when he finished both records, he's like the guitar tone Still is just like not exactly what I want it to be and I'm like all right, cool.

Speaker 1: 19:43

Well then next time let's just fucking like set up every cab, every amp, every fucking like Like every speaker and like spend like a few days just like fucking with shit and get you to a point. We're like this sounds good and so, like I've been do so on their new record, like I'm tracking, monitoring through like what will be our fucking tone, because like like a guy like that has the Internets to be like let's spend a bunch of days like getting tones like that, but like most of the other people are just like. You know, I fucking have a normal job. I got to be here for only four days. It's like plugging to my computer and let's get going here, and so it's much easier for me to just like really identify. I'd be like, what is your riff? What is the strumming pattern? Okay, well then, like when I hear it without this amp, like you're fucking going from this chord to this chord A little early and like I'm gonna need to like copy and paste one of the notes to like fix that. Or I should just stop and not have you punch in like or have you play that note and just finish this like so it's really easy for me to identify exactly what is the Performance issue that is happening with the player and how to like actually fix that right there in the second. You know what I mean to be like. Everything about that is perfect. Let's just fucking play one chord at a time, or let's, you know, play the whole thing like 20 bpm slower and then I'll like edit it together so it sounds normal like whatever it's going to be for me to get like a perfect take where, when I listen to it as just a Di. I'm like, damn, that sounds hella good.

Speaker 1: 20:59

And if I turn on a fucking amp like track or an amp on that, and it's like, fuck, that sounds hella fucking good. You know what I mean. So it's like, and so that's like the thing is like doing like that spirit world stuff. Like you know, we're like so Attempted to detail about like the palm mute and how the palm mute feels and responds to him.

Speaker 1: 21:14

That was his like biggest complaint, the biggest thing that he really wanted to like tackle this time. So it's like, damn, like, these palm meats like all sound fucking amazing, like in this fucking shreds and like rips. And then like I fucking Go into the di track without any amp and I can still hear that there's like a bunch of shitty ones, even though that all of them sounded fucking amazing. You know what I mean. And so it's like then it's like I go through and I just clean up a couple of things, copy and paste, edit some shit together and I'm like now let's hear this and I throw it through the amp with the reamp and it's like, fuck, that sounds so fucking sick.

Speaker 1: 21:42

But like if I didn't listen to this di without like how impressive the tone was and stuff I would have like I feel like I wouldn't have done my job and I wouldn't have like actually been the best friend for this band and getting them the best thing that is like there, you know, it's like I'm always trying to be in service to the song and be like what is the thing? That is how, like, standing at like, being amazing, like, and then you can have people argue be like, well, then you're removing the human. Okay, whatever you like, sure, fine, like, whatever I like making, like I like making Superhumans, then you know in that regard, so, yeah, I I really prefer that process and like, even though it's kind of like it changes for the style and how it works, I'm always monitoring and listening to and editing a fucking straight clean di guitar and bass.

Speaker 3: 22:26

Cool. Yeah, if you can make the di sound good. You know it's gonna sound great with an amp. Yeah and that's fascinating is that, like on this recent album you were just mentioning, you are Recording, listening to this amp tone, that you spent a bunch of time getting the right amp tone, but then you're still going through doing an edit and re-amping through that same Absolutely yeah, because we want it to be fucking so stupidly perfect.

Speaker 1: 22:49

And also it's like things where it's like Like I love this part of like making records too is like how, like I'm making like a metal record with spirit world and instead of listening to current metal records and like what is out there, and like being like what's our playing field? Like, what are we competing with? Like, what are we trying to do? Instead, it's like you know what? Let's listen to this Tom Petty record and how cool this Tom Petty like Record is.

Speaker 1: 23:09

And like this Bruce Springsteen thing. Like that Bruce Springsteen like cheesy snare, like we got to bring that element into this like and it's like I, like I run further away From like those things and try to incorporate things that are going to make us different and unique and stand out in a cool way, you know. So it's like just anytime that I'm like, I have an opportunity to be like, how can we like pump this up and like, be like, like, how can we like you know, just absolutely like put this thing on steroids and make it like you know the superhuman version of itself like? I'm always chasing that vibe, you know awesome man like, yeah, I love that.

Speaker 2: 23:44

So. So, just to the listeners, you know this podcast is called the self recording band, meaning People listening here are mainly musicians trying to record themselves, and I love this conversation already so much because it just shows how high the bar actually is or can be in certain professional situations, when I think this is sometimes one of the biggest challenges you have when you do it on your own, because there's no sam Sitting next to you telling you that this takes up and then that you have to do. You know this, this transition between the course has to be different, or all of the things you just mentioned. So how, how would you say, like, what's the best way for someone who? I mean, of course, and hiring an experienced producer is always the way to go if you, if you, want the best possible record Even us as educators say that, because it's true Like, if you want the best record possible, hire the best possible people for that and Create a team. But still, there are many people who want to do it themselves, for good reason, and we are, we are all for that and we empowering them.

Speaker 2: 24:37

Now, what would you say for someone who doesn't have your, your level of experience and who does it but you know they do it on their own. Like, how can you make sure, how can you train that kind of to be able to even Hear those things, and how can what can you do to make yourself, you know, go that far and like, make it that good and perfect and like not just not be lazy, because I feel like it's way easier to be lazy If it's just you and nobody's sitting next to you. And so all of these things, like what, what would you say to that? Like, what can someone do sitting at home with their guitar trying to make the best possible record? How can they, you know, get Anyway, anyway, close to that kind of level of perfectionism?

Speaker 1: 25:17

That's a really hard question, especially because I personally find the like I find the switching of the two brains to be really challenging within a day and within like a moment. You know what I mean. Like, if I'm trying to like Be just guy who's writing song, it's like really challenging to be pro tools editor simultaneously and like, yeah, if I'm like you know, like it's, it's Like I, I don't, I, I struggle with that personally and I like I find it that I end up being most happier if I sit in the role of being producer and fucking Guy that does that, and if it's my thing, it doesn't work for me because I'll be too critical and I can't like separate and differentiate. I would need a, I would need a me in order for me to make my fucking music. I would need someone to produce me in order to actually successfully like put out my own content. You know, so, like I do, I think that that's like the main thing is like there's there's like the archetypal, like roles of, like each type of person in the band, and I think it's really I like, I think it's it's helpful to identify who is the songwriter and visionary of the band that everyone needs to like follow and then you're going to help, like you need to identify the person who's going to like be the fucking producer freak who's going to be able to Be like all right, well, let's be realistic and like, let's put all these ideas into a thing you know. Otherwise, being that simultaneously is really hard and I like I don't, I don't work with anyone like that does that. Well, you know what I mean Like, and the most like all the artists that I work with are people who are like I'm artist.

Speaker 1: 26:46

I fucking like make stuff and it's like so close to me being like super stoked, but I know that like it's not going to be. But when I listen to your stuff, it makes me feel like like complete and like you're emotionally fulfilled. And when I listen to my stuff, I just hear it as my thing. I need like your help to make me think that my music, yeah, so that's where I'm like all right, sick. Like I'm going to make like this type of content where, like this artist is going to be able to hear themselves as they hear other music. You know what I mean Like.

Speaker 1: 27:14

So point is, like I it's really challenging. That's like those are like two different type of fucking roles. You know what I mean Like. And then that's where, like, I find a lot of these people get really stuck in, like recording bands, like it's very easy to just like be like all right, let's just record takes. How was that? Was that a take? Cool, that's good enough. Now Let me like play with some tones and like be like that's sick. This new plugin, you know. So like that's, that's fun, that's its own process, but like that, like isn't. That isn't making music, that isn't like making emotion, and so I like I don't know.

Speaker 1: 27:43

I think that really the point is this like, if you're even aware of what I'm talking about Maybe that's the point you know what I mean If you have this awareness that, like there is this like Disconnect from writer to a fucking person who can like outside observer, who could help you fucking rain this in, then you can maybe start helping yourself, have a different perspective and be able to step back and do that. So, like I would call that like there's people who get it and there's people who don't get it, and so, like the people who get what I'm talking about, like this will benefit them, but the people who don't get it, like they're just going to have to go through the process of making music. So to actually get to that realization and that point that there's some disconnect happening that they need to fulfill. You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: 28:22

Absolutely, and I'm so glad you said that because we realized early on like, literally, when someone subscribed to to subscribe to any of our stuff and it ends up being on our email list, the, the one of the first things that goes out to them is an email that's called the biggest challenge.

Speaker 2: 28:37

You know the people I don't know the exact title, but what's the big, the biggest challenge that people have who record themselves something like that, and it's it's exactly talking about those things that you say those different roles and how, how beneficial it is to have at least someone else in the band or, ideally, an outside person helping with that stuff.

Speaker 2: 28:52

And then that's also the reason why we switched from just selling online courses To doing the hands-on, one-on-one coaching program stuff that we do now, which is way more effort an hour and not at all the passive like thing you can run. But I'm kind of we are kind of remote, remote producing with these people and can give them the feedback and the guidance with, which gives them way better results than just watching a bunch of videos and hoping for the best. So it's exactly because of those reasons Do you ever Find yourself working like mixing for self-recording artists and then you maybe run into the same problems over and over again and it have family to educate those people as well in the process, or do you just accept whatever they send you and you know that it is what it is?

Speaker 1: 29:29

so external mixing processes are a little bit challenging because Mainly what they're listening to and referencing of, like my work that they love, is my productions, and my productions are 80% of what is my mixing and what is my sound, you know, and so I thought yeah.

Speaker 1: 29:44

Yeah, so there there becomes a very big disconnect where, like, basically like from what I've learned like over the years of, like you know, working with music and like working with Pro Tools and like watching other people operate Like one of my huge skills that I bring to the table is like a crazy arrangement. That is like happening where, like the dynamics and like the size and the sounds are all really being built into the arrangement of things like the introduction of like a mono guitar Versus a stereo guitar or a doubled stereo guitar, or like a blah, blah, blah. Like these are things where, like I'm producing To get the mixing results that I want. You know what I mean. So people will send me like Like MIDI files for drums and like two guitar tracks and a bass and it's like word. I'll put that right here and I'll like put good sounds on that. But like I don't really like. Like you're referencing like records of mine where, like that chorus is 12 guitars and it's a totally different drum sound and then we go to the verse and it's a totally different drum sound with one fucking guitar. You know what I mean? Like shit, like that, where it's like, like there's like and, and so then like naturally It'll be things like I just like the guitars don't sound as big as this song that you had done with that. It's like I have to explain to people like the reason why that sounds so you know.

Speaker 1: 30:53

So the and then the other issue is too is that like what my mixing is really like, what my mixing really does to my like productions? Is it like Doesn't stand in the way of things and everything becomes a little bit more defined and clear and focused and like your attention to detail of these things are going to be able to like stand out and like, if there is any Any fucking bad moment in there, you will fucking hear it and it's like hi-hat bleed. But like vocal de-essing, vocal, like clipping issues with like Like editing of clips or auto-tune or yada, yada, like things that no one had ever heard before in their life Are so magnified in my mixes and they come to and like it gets sent to them and they're like horrified. They're like, oh my god, I hate my vocal and it's like what you hate is like your actual vocal, nothing to do with like like I've like put it like. So that's where it's like when you really want me to like change these like things and like turn it into magic, like that's I.

Speaker 1: 31:58

I believe that that's all inside of production and that's all inside of arrangement and like, and people have this very like Romantic idea that mixing brings that magic to the table. But it has nothing to do with that. And like and I've learned that even harder by like working with Tom or Daljean, working with Eric Valentine, and like have and like Brian Big Bass, gardener, like doing my master's like once, like I worked with these people, like my fucking like Anxiety about my productions and my stuff went up. You know what I mean, because I heard my stuff in more of a higher fidelity, in a higher detail and I heard my just connective things. If I thought my symbols were maybe like a little harsh, well then they fucking sounded harsh. You know what I mean. Like shit, like that. It's like, like it is what it is, so like that. That's that I do struggle with that with bands, you know I mean I do have a lot better time doing just production related work when it comes down to that.

Speaker 1: 32:48

But then, like there's other artists, like a great artist is this guy, ryan Carveo, that I just worked with. He's like a r&b, like a rap artist, pop bar, like pop r&b shit. And so he like they hit me up for to do like 12 songs and like the sessions were pretty fucking immaculate Dude, like the end the fucking songs were pretty fucking goddamn good and the arrangements were pretty fucking awesome and like it really came into like if I fucking made any move, like they're fucking producer, this guy teal, and and like Ryan to the artist, like they fucking heard it. You know what I mean, it was so fucking obvious and like they have lived with these things. So like so, and that's the type of stuff where I'm like this is really fun. This is a cool, different challenge other than like cool, let me just like do my thing and like have it.

Speaker 1: 33:30

It's like there's a very detailed, like Oriented destination that we're going for and like that's the type of external mixing where, like we're best friends you know what I mean Like do you want someone who's going to have the endurance to like help you, like be a total, like passionate freak and like get to where you want, especially if you are an amazing visionary who has relevant revisions and isn't just some ego vanity person Handing off like anxiety, saying I don't like the sound of my. You know what I mean. If they're like I think I could be a little bit Brighter. Perfect, I'll make you brighter, not a problem.

Speaker 1: 34:00

Like so, like there's like you guys probably know what I mean in terms of like there's so many records that I've worked on where, like, the band's revisions make everything worse, and there's very few records where I've worked on where the band's revisions like, just like absolutely elevated and like. A good example of that is the band hundredth, this guy, ryan, I'm talking about stew from spear. Well, these are all people where, like, we spend days on zoom doing revisions and like everything that they throw at me is Relevant and it's like such a good point. You know what I mean. It's like damn, I didn't even hear that like. Thank you for telling me that. I like that's like like we have like great, like Relationships, like making records like that and mix like that, like that's my favorite type of mixing, you know, as opposed to like okay, cool, like, let me like you know, at that point I'd rather just redo the production with these people, you know.

Speaker 2: 36:27

Yeah, right, right, love all of that and and it just, you know, it just yeah, I guess it depends on who you work with, because, on the other hand, and there's like people like, like you say, the Tom Lorde LG's of the world and like those types of mixers who just mix but they work with people who send them like really well produced stuff and and so that the difference may be worse is working with DIY bands, where you just don't have that, and it's a different reality.

Speaker 1: 36:51

I have a funny Tom Lorde LG story for you on this. So like when we were working like we like we got, like you know, drums, guitars like there. There are a couple moments where he was like Like he was like hard referencing it against my ref and he was just like I feel like if I just switched to a mono guitar for this Course, it's going to help it better instead of the stereo one, like for this, like third overdub, like guitar track that we had and I was like sure, whatever. But because like he's like not used to like dealing with like three stereo guitar tracks you know what I mean he's just like I don't know, like that's kind of an extra weird thing.

Speaker 1: 37:21

So like Like, sure he liked it, I thought it sounded better. It's the second one, but like, whatever it's time, I'll let him do his thing, you know. And so then he gets to the percussion and I have like and in this session I have like like 12 tracks of percussion and it's like there's like shake or going through the entire song, and then there's like, and like you know, like methodically muted and like arranged perfectly, and then there's like these one-shot shakers and then there's like tambourines, and then like there's back-up tambourines that come up in the chorus and like this arrangement is perfect and like if you print this stem, like this is like a pretty fucking good thing. And so he turned to me and he was just like this percussion, what do you want me to do here?

Speaker 1: 37:56

I was like Make it work, like do your thing, and like, basically, what I realized about Tom's mixing right at that moment is Tom, his entire world and his entire job has been, if it's on a fader and if it's in the session, it's his job to make it really clear. So all the percussion was just like so fucking loud in the song. I'm like like all, just like like this, like cha-cha like thing was going on. It's like all right. So first revision, all that percussion take it down like 12.

Speaker 1: 38:28

DB not really heard. Like so guy like that has never dealt with things that are, like meant to be felt and not heard. You're gonna mean so just like a funny, like like anecdotes, like how like different my mixing approach and like my my production Approach is compared to like someone who's mixing, you're, in a main, like yeah, totally.

Speaker 2: 38:43

I expected it either to be that, like it be way you know, on top of everything until out, or or, but it could have. I wouldn't have been surprised if you just muted it. Yeah, that's also another funny.

Speaker 1: 38:55

Story is he. So he showed me like a bunch of like, like other mixes that he did and like we also like, got stone and listened to Pink Floyd's dark side of the moon when the eclipse was happening, on 5.1 on his SSL. No big fucking deal.

Speaker 3: 39:09

So, but it was.

Speaker 1: 39:11

We broed down like hung out, so like he was showing me some other mixes and stuff, and so that he was like, do you want? Like cuz, I'm a big third eye blind fan. So I was making him show me some third eye blind stuff and so he was like, oh, you want to hear my, my mix of semi-charm life that they didn't use? I'm like, yes, please. And so he turns it on and the first thing I notice is there's no loop like the whole percussion loop that's happening, like again, this is a funny Tom word out thing the whole question loop that's in that song, not there on Tom's one. And I'm like what? And I've listened to the Tom mix and like I can't describe it Other than like it sounded like a control room playback of the demo. It sounded nothing like the absolute, like like perfect song that semi-charm life is.

Speaker 1: 39:50

And I like and like the song finished and he was like he was like what do you think? And I was like that was really interesting. And he was like did you notice that? That the loop wasn't there in the beginning. I was like, oh yeah, I noticed that. And he was like, yeah, I didn't like that loop, so I muted it and he goes big mistake. I told him about that story and he laughed so hard and he said it's not like it was like. It's not that he didn't like it, he literally called it fruity cha cha bullshit. And this fruity cha cha bullshit, what do you want me to do with it? It's like, dude, make it work, it's part of the song. He's like, I don't get it muted.

Speaker 3: 40:32

That's Just. We went Third-eye blind when he came up to my that's came over to Canada from my wedding and we saw third-eye blind. That's played a festival that's awesome in June. Yeah, it was awesome.

Speaker 2: 40:43

Yeah, that was awesome. Yeah, we had the yeah, you played that festival as well, and so we had, like, backstage access and we're watching third-eye, blind, from behind the stage, which was awesome yeah that's cool, cool, yeah, rocks. I love those. I love those stories though. This is great. Such an ornality thing to do also.

Speaker 3: 41:00

Yes.

Speaker 2: 41:00

Yes, so great, cool man. I want to talk about another thing here that's very interesting to me and important for me to talk about, and that is your love for Gear combined with your love for a good workflow, which can sometimes be a conflicting, you know thing. So one thing I saw that there's two things that come to mind. First of all, we briefly met in LA at NAMM yes, and you were at the audio scape booth and you did a little talk there and talked about their analog gear and what you said there was really Interesting, the way you talked about the analog gear, how passionate you are, all the details you know about the different revisions of the same compressor and all of that. That was just really cool to see.

Speaker 2: 41:40

And then also the other thing that comes to mind is I saw some conversation online somewhere in a group or on Facebook, in the comments, somewhere, where something really Stuck with me and that was it was about the convenience Versus getting the best quality for a record, where of course, it's more convenient to just stay in the box and not have to do the patching and the maintenance and the recalls and all of that. But then you said something like there are times where you think, like you kind of question your way of doing things just because it's so Such a tedious way of working and it can be like that. But then also you said, like as long as I'm getting better results doing that, though, I'm absolutely willing to do that because it gets me better results and I'm not compromising there anything. And so this is really interesting to me, because that balance between Having a good, efficient workflow and being able to react quickly and easy recall and all of that versus the all, the, the Last bit of quality that you can like squeeze out of a record, and and yeah, that's just an interesting conversation overall.

Speaker 2: 42:41

So how? What are your thoughts on this? Because there are people who say I don't need any analog gear to get the quality I want. Then there are people who completely rely on analog. Then there's anything in between and what are your thoughts on all of this? Because, especially the, I'm not going the convenient route if that means compromise. That is really inspiring and fascinating to me.

Speaker 1: 43:02

Yeah, okay, so I I think a lot of the, a lot of this importance is really like what do you listen to and what do you like and what do you want to actually fucking sound like? And when it really comes down to like Everything that I have loved in my life, it's heavily analog, processed on the front end and very minimally processed on the mixing and in the background it's a very much so like the console is happening with like some cool fucking like bus things happening and like that's it. Like I hung out with Robert Caronza at a purified party in LA for now I'm recently and I was always admired or my really liked all his one day as a lion shit that he did and I really liked His Mars Volta stuff. And we were talking about Brennan O'Brien and I'm a huge Brennan O'Brien fan. Like most of my favorite drum sounds of all time are Brennan O'Brien stuff and like he like I Asked where I was like man, I've heard that Brian mixes so fast. He was like I've watched him mix entire records in 12 minutes. Like that's insane. He's like he literally just knows the console and he knows the limitations of it and he's just like boom, kick, drum, snare, drum. Everything is bus to this fucking comp. I have this thing going here Like. This is here. Maybe I could turn up a little bit more kick. Let me go to the small fader, send it to the fucking mix bus outside of all that boom. That's pretty much the most I could do on that. That sounds pretty amazing and like no one else can make a mix records Like that. I could never do that. Robert can't do that, we could probably never do that. But like that guy, that's his way of doing it and he made some of my favorite sounding stuff ever. You know what I mean.

Speaker 1: 44:31

And like that type of stuff is like they have a very like like straightforward and process. Every time Kick in is always this mic, it's always this thing, it's always blah, blah, blah. Like they just had like a machine shop where they just walk in and they get to work and they just make music and that's the process that, like I was always really inspired by and being like I want to build chains. So when I record drums it's just fucking an amazing sounding drum, sound like I don't need to go grabbing plugins and be like, oh shit, let's start with the kick drum. Like I've already done that. I did that with my EQ here, I did it with my compression outside of the box, I did it with everything, like I made sure that this is all fucking perfect and so Like to like, like talk about how like like convenient and amazing, that is, even though it sounds so like Inconvenient and theory with all of this stuff being plugged in.

Speaker 1: 45:16

When we were doing the second spirit world record, like I had just finished making a sample pack for the purified and I had like which, like we haven't even put out, we're still like working on it, like methodically. But point is like we did, like the whole test. I tried every pramp, every fucking mic, everything. I did every fucking thing in my studio to make sure that I had the best signal flow and, sure enough, I always landed back on the exact same thing and the exact same settings that I already liked and so, like we had this Absolutely perfect total recall scenario. So then, spirit world's like it's time for us to record drums. We need to get, like Thomas Pridgen set up. We plugged in the mics I had my assistant in here, james, using the recall like pictures that we took put everything in, plugged in the drums, press input and it was a finished Fucking drum sound and we started recording drums and that took less than 45 minutes to do.

Speaker 1: 46:07

And that's one of those things where it's like, sure, maybe it's inconvenient to have this gear in the process and like sometimes the patch cable is like not really plugged in. I'm like what the fuck it's going on? My Tom like, why is my Tom like? And after like trace shit like that, like the beauty in my baked in sounds, in my baked in process and my production and my thing is like having these things in my disposal. You know, I'm like I'm looking at all my stuff that I have here. It's like I Got my unfair child over here that I've like still just been like tweaking and playing with and like trying to find the most Magical settings on. Like right before we did this, I had my friend David send me a mix of his that he's like trying to get mastered and I'm like, dude, let me run it through the fair child I'm. I like like magic setting that I found and let me just like like set it back to you and he's like, dude, that's amazing, perfect, I'm sending it to mouse.

Speaker 1: 46:48

Like the fact that, like that's the type of thing where, like, all these things are just like, if I just turn it on and have it ready to go, no matter what, I can always get where I want to and like be focused on making music and never have to focus on, like that whole part of the brain of like EQ, blah, blah, blah. I want to just be focused on arrangement world the whole time and have everything just sound good to me. You know what I mean. So like. That's why I like I'm so in love with my analog process and my baked thing, because it just works for me and I and I I really like I came from the analog background and like, like it's just my thing and it is my thing that like makes me feel comfortable and makes me feel like I'm like working the most efficiently and making the best records and like there's no like like this process is better than digital. There's none of that. It's completely irrelevant. You know what I mean.

Speaker 1: 47:31

It's like, yeah, it's just that I know for a fact that when I use this fucking fair child on my fucking mix bus, there's no plug-in in my fucking computer that can get me even closer to that. When I use the fucking compacts on my drum Buster, the API, my drum bus, even if I compare it to the waves one, these things always to me Sound better and I pick them out in an AB blind test every single fucking time and that's why I use them. You know what I mean. Like that's my fucking thing and like that's the sound that I'm going towards. And like you know, it's like, of course I like the fucking like, of course I like the SPL transient designer on fucking drums. That's what Brandon O'Brien loves. Of course I love the fats on drums, that's what Brandon O'Brien loves. You know what I mean.

Speaker 1: 48:07

It's like the second you like hit these things, you're like, there it is. That's the fucking sound. That's the thing that I've been going for. So like, that's what my shit is. It's all like an accumulation of like eras and like workflows and like things, of like people that I've like, been so inspired by and like, and it's like has been built into my Sound and my thing, you know.

Speaker 1: 48:27

So like, I fucking love analog gear and then like also, but like, then that brings the other conversation where it's like I have a plug-in company and the reason I have a plug-in company is because, like, let's be honest, I have two eleven seventy six revs here in two LA three a's and that I use that on my vocal chain. That's my fucking vocal chain. But when I fucking mix some project that I've already fucking done that for and like I need to Compress the vocal even more in the mix, I then like grab like our box, or blah, blah, blah, and all this stuff just like sounds like I'm not doing what I'm used to doing. So I and I want to plug in my outboard, but it's like you know I need to do this on 12 of the background vocal tracks. So now that's where I'm like. You know, why don't I just fucking like put like this thing in a fucking like this exact Emulation, exact thing and try to get it as one to one as possible and fucking like, and that's what it is, you know. And so like that's where it's like.

Speaker 1: 49:15

Like I'm taking my love of my analog workflow and I'm bringing it into the box in ways that no one I know is is doing or thinking about doing. And like it's also like one Of those like classic yeah, you can come in. It's one of those classic, oh, it is you. Oh, my god, I'm doing a podcast. I can't talk to you right now. You can sit down and hang out. This is my best friend, nick, by the way. He's my barber and he's just stopping by because he's he's in the area getting braces stuff done, so he told me he was gonna stop by one time.

Speaker 3: 49:43

There he is.

Speaker 1: 49:44

Yeah, these are two of my homies. They're both interviewing me about audio. Yeah, just sit down. Just sit down, you can be best friends.

Speaker 1: 49:52

So, anyways, back to the back to the point. Like I None of these companies that like are making plugins like this, like fucking make records and they don't fucking deal with the type of like Actual, like logistical issues that I'm fucking facing, because my workflow is not what they're doing and no one does what I do. You know what I mean? Like it just doesn't. So that's where I'm like. There's this tremendous void and like uncharted opportunity for me to like fulfill and making like plugins that are affordable, that aren't this fucking subscription fee, that, like are completely like built differently and with a different workflow in mind, where, like, I Can make what I do outside of here even more tweaker inside of the box, and it's fucking sick. You know what I mean Like, like, not only am I this analog enthusiast, but like I'm now like bringing this entire workflow into a digital workflow. That's getting me even more stoked on the digital workflow of what I do. You know that is inspiring, yeah you're to mean like as opposed to pulling me further away from it, Like it's.

Speaker 1: 50:55

Like you know what is the limitation on my analog and you know what is the limitation of the digital idea with why don't I fucking merge this? Like it's crazy that no one is doing that.

Speaker 2: 51:03

Yeah, and that's what I found so interesting about your plugins as well, where and it made me honestly think I've never made a plugin in my life, but it made me think, like I got this analog here in front of me in this, in these wrecks that I really love, and Part of me, like I love being in the box as much as I can, just because I work on a lot of projects and I love the recall and I get.

Speaker 2: 51:21

I honestly believe I don't compromise anything because I get great results in the box.

Speaker 2: 51:24

I'll I still have these things, though, and I will use them if it's better, for in that moment, like I do use those, those things, but there's always a little bit of a trade-off or like, yeah, but it made me think when I, when I saw your plugins and the, the concepts behind it and all of that, I was like the best thing would be to have my stuff in a plugin for exactly the reasons that you just said, because this is my chain of my things, that I know how to use it and I can use it very quickly, and I don't want another person's emulation of that same thing.

Speaker 2: 51:53

I want my chain and how they interact and the sound that I'm Getting out of, that I want that, and so I saw that in your plugins, that you do that with your stuff, and I was like that's genius. I wish I had that, because then I could use more of my stuff without having to go through it again and again and again for All these groups and stamps and whatnot. So totally get that idea and that's like I'll talk about the, the.

Speaker 1: 52:15

LED cop for a second one of our like new products. So we put out like that's like an amalgamation of like distress or like DBX, ssl channel stuff, like, basically like any of like. If I'm gonna be like sick, I want to use my distress around kicker, I want to use my DBX on kicker, I want to use like an SSL channel strip on kick. Like like I modeled the things that I want so that, like, I can go to that Fucking plug in and use it for those instances and it's like it's pretty fucking one-to-one. You know what I mean Like and it's not like. Like it's.

Speaker 1: 52:42

I'll still use this real stuff as I'm tracking. But, like, if I'm just in the box and I need a little bit of fucking kick up, I'm gonna grab my fucking VCI cop. You know anything like I'm gonna grab the one that I know like is gonna be better than the fucking waves, dbx one, the Rouser, etc. Like it'll respond and be way more aggressive, a way more exciting and like. So, like it's, it's just like that's, it rocks. You know what I mean Like and it's sick to be doing that.

Speaker 2: 53:06

Yeah totally, and also what you. What I also think is cool is you are, if you, if I just look at the plugins you make, you can tell what they're kind of based on or like, but it's not the exact thing. It's not a distressed emulation and it's not an SSL channel strip emulation. It's there's parts of that in it, but then you added features that you know, you, we wish the original had, or, like you come, you combine the, the tube, the best of both worlds Basically, which I think is really cool as well, because that makes that makes it easy for people to use the tools, because they are kind of familiar With that. So you look at the SSLEQ you know exactly what to what do you looking at and how it works, yeah, then you add additional things that only that one has or you know, and then there's things like the micro limiter, where I don't think any other plugin exists.

Speaker 1: 53:52

Three of them here, because I fucking use them all the fucking time. I still use them all the time.

Speaker 2: 53:56

I think it's your fault that they are so expensive now compared to what they used to be. You know, it's really funny is it is.

Speaker 1: 54:02

I think I am to blame for that, but one of my favorite things that happened. This is another like great story. I like there's a guy named Alex Newport that was doing like a lot of like the locust and like At the driving stuff early on and I really loved his stuff and a friend of mine's band so many dynamos. They had an album mixed by him and Somewhere along the way I had heard that they had used a micro limiter on drums for that. Someone was like, yeah, dude, who used a micro limiter on the drums?

Speaker 1: 54:27

I'm like, oh my god, that like I looked it up and it was like eBay at the time. You know, it's like a $30. I'm like I'm gonna fucking buy that and I got it. It was like so fucking goddamn good but and I had like two stressors and then I had that. I'm like, dude, this is like as sick as a distresser and it's like 30 fucking bucks and like. So now that we like made the plug it out of it, I like reach out to Alex Newport. I'm like, hey, dude, we made the fucking, you know like plug into this. Like I fucking really love like your work and like I had heard that like you used it on the and he's like oh, that's funny. I actually never used one of those before. I was like oh.

Speaker 3: 54:58

I'm sorry, man. Oh, it's okay, whatever.

Speaker 2: 55:02

That's how I got into it for an incorrect.

Speaker 1: 55:04

Yeah, I was. I was led astray and I found a. I found a goal exactly.

Speaker 2: 55:09

Yeah, how cool is that, though?

Speaker 1: 55:10

What a random story right.

Speaker 2: 55:13

Like, what are the chances, right, that you could? It could have been like some crappy thing that like you don't understand why anybody would ever use that, but you accidentally discovered this piece of gold there, yeah, yeah, he's like.

Speaker 1: 55:25

He's like I have. I had a level lock at that time. Maybe that's what they were thinking of, but like yeah. I've never had the maybe you're missing Now you made it popular.

Speaker 2: 55:34

People are probably because there you go, because of you, right yeah?

Speaker 1: 55:37

And it still is to say like a secret weapon, like it's funny, I, what are the coolest people that bought that plug? And like, randomly one day I just like saw the order and like Mike Spark, stent or Mark Stent or whatever, I'm like, wait, no way, spike just bought the microlimiter. Fuck, yes, dude. So hey, spike's got it now. No big deal that's awesome.

Speaker 2: 55:58

Wow, that is amazing. That is amazing. Did you ever send your message about it, with your feedback or anything like that?

Speaker 1: 56:04

Yeah, I was gonna be like hey, man, I love you. I was like I should just like that's kind of invasive or weird.

Speaker 2: 56:10

Like I'll just let it down.

Speaker 1: 56:11

Whatever you buy, cool, that's awesome, that's cool.

Speaker 3: 56:15

Sam, one thing that I think you're probably the only person I've ever had the opportunity to ask about this that's actually held one or been close to one and had one in the room, and I think it could have a huge impact on home recording and making it the quality bar go up, and that is the Evertoon bass model.

Speaker 1: 56:32

I was gonna guess before you even said it, I was gonna say let me stop you. I bet it's the Evertoon bass. So the Evertoon bass is kind of like a really inspiring but like kind of like demoralizingly, like sad story in a way too, because like it's been a constant grind for those guys and like I'm really close with the Evertoon guys. More importantly, I'm really close with this guy, matt Blackett, who's like the Evertoon like artist guy, he's like the dude, and so then Cosmos is the guy who makes it and like I met Cosmos the name super fucking awesome guy Actually just like a brilliant, like person to like even talk to in general. He's just like fascinating in terms of like he doesn't play guitar but he was like into like patents and was like what should I make that would like be great to make a patent? And then he like was looking at a guitar and was like it'd be funny if I like made the spring system to hold a guitar in tune and like that's how he came up with it Like it's like he's just like so, he's just like this, he's brilliant, he thinks outside of the box and so like the fact that this like Evertoon bass, is even a thing that they've been like going for is like like this is like. This is a genius, like technology. You know what I mean. Like like this is some savant level invention, shit that has never like come into. Like a guitar is like like I saw like a meme about it the other day of like all the different phones and how, like the P basses stay the same the same. Like you know what I mean. Like this is the most exciting invention that's ever happened to a stringed instrument. You know what I mean. Like and it's I agree, and so like for it to be like coming to a bass is insane, and so it was brought here and it fucking rocked, dude, and like we fucking like you know we're playing it and like like putting it through Melodyne and it was just like not fucking moving dude, like and it's like. You know I've got enough of Evertoon experience that it's like you know, when you like, when you get it to the fucking meter, it's fucking perfect.

Speaker 1: 58:12

So, but they keep having some slight issues with it that they keep having to trace down and they're really, really, really like annoying weird things that like like they would have never thought of. Like it's like manufacturing tolerance of the screws of some things are getting bad and so then it's wearing quicker and like slight, like just things that like keep coming up where they're like dude, I thought we were gonna have it, but then, like this thing came up, and then this thing came up and this thing came up. So like each time I see Matt, he's like it's the same song and dance soon. I'm hoping, like we should like I don't want to say a date yet, but like this, so like they are actively working on that thing and like it is a fucking challenge in it. Like is a fucking like, getting the manufacturing for that thing to be perfect, to hold fucking bass strings, 145 fucking gauge strings and fucking tune Like you know a fucking hard that has to be and how fucking genius.

Speaker 1: 59:03

And also on top of that, like the bridge is like very like they completely redesigned the Evertoon scenario as well too. Like they're gonna like do it for guitars as well too. Like it's like a very thin bridge that causes like a very like thin amount of routing. You don't have to fucking route out for the whole thing of that, as guitars, like the springs, are very small. So like this thing in general, like is extremely less invasive. Like then it would possibly be on like the old ones. And on top of that, like it's just like there's so much like like going on. It's such a small fucking micro like space. You know what I mean. So like I can only imagine like the CNC, like nightmares that are like happening and trying to like actually make that stuff true. So, anyways, it rocks and it was like it's great.

Speaker 1: 59:44

Apparently, like there's just slight tolerance, slipping things that they are like really coming down to because they want, and like Matt was saying, he was just like if we don't get this right, it will ruin our company. Like if this comes out and like it doesn't work for someone's like right, we're over, we're completely fucked. Like we have to like. This is the thing that like we have to like show like how Evertoon is like is already like the best invention for guitars. We have to like, we have to absolutely nail it with no compromises on the bass, and I totally respect that and admire that about it. You know what I mean Like. So whatever they need to do to make that thing fucking perfect, totally fine. But yeah, I played that thing. It fucking rocks. It's a real existing thing and it's they're doing the best they can to fucking get that thing forward.

Speaker 3: 1:00:23

Yeah, I think I. I maybe I'm crazy, but I think Evertoon guitars and soon bases are like one of the best investments a band can make if they're going to record their own records.

Speaker 1: 1:00:33

It's like another great example, like during the heavy, heavy Lolo stuff the other day, like these guys like are like vendors and they're fucking you know. Like they like they're and they're a noise band. They make weird noise music and like, so I'm like dude, let me set you up on the Evertoon guitar and they're like what this doesn't bend, but it's like the same guitars that they used to play, like like the same telecaster that Dan used to play, but now it's Evertoon. He's like what the hell? And so I put it in the mode where, like he had banded it was fine. And then, after like recording and like me putting it into like, like like let's just track without an event mode and like see, like if you need to do a band part, we'll do the band.

Speaker 1: 1:01:05

And like this guy was like totally anti Evertoon. And then, like, at the end of like two days, he's like I want one. And he was like talking to one of these other guys here that like has an Evertoon. He's like, yeah, I like it, like for the studio, but like live, it was like I would love to use it live. In fact, I'd rather use it live than like in the studio, because in the studio I can have more control and like it like vibe out, but like live. I want my guitar to always be.

Speaker 1: 1:01:25

So it's. It's funny how like, like it just takes playing you know what I mean and like, like. Also, like guitar players are like weird, like people and they're like very religious about guitar and like for someone to come with this invention is a very sacrilegious thing, Like this guy, Nick, sitting behind me. He's one of these guys who's like Evertoon, not into it, not down with it, but he's like he's never he's never made a record.

Speaker 1: 1:01:46

He doesn't understand what Evertoon is and how this is a thing. He's just a guy that has really nice Les Pauls and he's like why would I ever do that to my Les Paul? Like that's sacrilegious. You know what I mean and I get that.

Speaker 1: 1:01:57

And so like, and that's the constant challenge that Evertoon faces with guitars is, like people are just like that's weird, that's strange, no, and they're totally against it. So, like I do think the bass is the thing that like, like it's going to like, like they said, either make or break that company. And I know that they're going to nail this bass and they had, like from what I had, I was totally stoked on it. You know what I mean. And like maybe some like issues would have happened where, like one of the strings springs would have needed to be replaced, like sooner than they wanted me to, or whatever, like whatever they're working out, make it happen because that thing fucking rocks. And it's like like to have that, like to have Evertoon guitars in my production is just like absolutely life changing. Like we can. We can have a whole conversation about like me, my life before Evertoon and after Evertoon, with, like the difficulty of like working with human beings, like, like, literally, like like I, like me being a producer and engineer, like I had to play so much bass and so much guitar on so many records that I produced like records that, like people would never think that I was the guy playing most of the guitar.

Speaker 1: 1:02:55

I'm like I had to do that very often, like lots of Captain Midnight stuff, where I'm like that guy just was not holding this in tune, I need to play this all over again and do this type of stuff. And then things were like I had a band that came here from Australia with their guitars and like had crazy weird tunings and like there was just a tuning nightmare of everything. And as we finished the guitars, as we're finished with drums and bass, they're like some parts just sound tuning. It's like, dude, I can't like, I can't do this. Like I would have to play your stuff in order for me to like make it perfectly in tune.

Speaker 1: 1:03:26

Because like it's like every time I give it to you you'll tune it and like, but you just it's not going to work, like unless I do something about it. So every time like I just like I was like I have to try this ever tune thing and once I tried ever tune exponentially different fucking morale and process of making records so much less combative, so much less insulting to these artists. Like I don't have to play nearly as often anymore. You know what I mean. And like like the entire, everything about it is a benefit and for anyone who like, like hates on ever tune. They just don't do what we do for a living and they have no idea why this tool is actually a benefit and how it's like how it does.

Speaker 3: 1:04:04

So yeah, how much time we spend tuning and asking them to retune and then like not to.

Speaker 1: 1:04:10

Not only time, but it's just like, like, like, I mean like like Garth Richardson, like making the record with Garth, I was the first guy to show him an ever tune and he said when he like his story about the ever tune is really like kind of wild Cause I told him about the ever tune, I showed him it and like he was like play this chord, play this. And then like days later he like came in to like grab our assistant because he needed something from him we were tracking a guitar part and he like turned to that assistant and like I didn't watch any of this go down, I was just really like engineering the guitar part, didn't even realize that like Garth was in the room, but allegedly like so. But what happened was Garth left the room and he slammed the door hella fucking hard and I was like what the fuck was that? And then he was like that was Garth and I was like what, like is he cool? And he was like I don't know, I'm going to go check on him. And it was like what the fuck? Like Garth like just like slam the door and got all weird. And what basically happened was he asked Carl he goes, is that one of those guitars? And Carl was like, yeah, and he said that he just in that moment it was so in tune and he was watching the guy play a natural performance and it was so in tune and like, if you know anything about Garth, like they get like chord punch every single fucking moment and like the guy holds the chord and they fucking tune it for you and then say, play just that chord.

Speaker 1: 1:05:15

Like it's like this process that they have had to made because of that. And he said that he almost threw up. He was so he immediately got sick to his stomach thinking about all of the processes of making records with people, all the falling outs, all of the fucking, like you know, combative confrontations, and this tool now existed that like would have absolutely avoided all of that. He just he couldn't take it. He fucking he had to get out of that room. That's what happened to him. Like it's insane. Like he like was overwhelmed with all of that fucking. Like past fucking trauma of fucking guitar tracking and getting a guitar to be in fucking tune. Like it's like. Like that's like it's not like an exaggeration, like the I I'm not friends with people who are some of the best friends of my life because of that type of process. It's insane. You know what I?

Speaker 3: 1:06:04

mean yeah, I totally get it, though I couldn't really more.

Speaker 2: 1:06:06

Yeah, and I think it's like anybody who's ever experienced that, like the process using an ever tune. And then, if you think about how much more time you can spend on your music actually playing, working on the music versus you know the tune, and not just time, as you said, but like even that alone just how much more focused you are on the songs, the music, and how much less distracted you are, and then all those confrontational things, of course, in those conversations, it's insane. Anyone who's ever experienced that? I think it. Yeah, it's very hard to imagine anyone being against that.

Speaker 1: 1:06:37

After experiencing that, I work entire days recording several songs in a day. And we will go grab the Jazzmaster, play this course on the Jazzmaster. Grab that Les Paul, play this course on the Les Paul. Grab that Telly, let's do that verse on the Telly. Go to the Strat, let's grab that Strat and do that other bridge over there. Like now, grab my Supersonic and my Les Paul Junior and let's do that. And I never tune any of the fucking goddamn guitars for days because they're all fucking set up and I can just go guitar to guitar and I never have to check the tuning and I can just be like I know that this guitar is going to sound best for this riff for this moment. Go grab that.

Speaker 2: 1:07:13

And it's so fucking sick dude and that a little like combining different guitars. How painful that can be. Like right, how often in the past I had to just pick the same guitar for different layers or parts, just because that was the one that we managed to help to get in tune right and to stay in tune and then I get like, that's one of those like, like.

Speaker 1: 1:07:31

then you feel like you're doing a disservice to the song because you are compromising and that's bullshit. You know, what I mean. Like that's like, that's the type of stuff Like that's it. I'm not going to do this. I'm not going to. I'm going to fix this problem right now. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:07:43

I remember a punk record that I did with a band called Swallows Rose that, and I love that record. But we they used a Les Paul and the Tally and they we wanted to combine those in certain ways and it was such a pain because the Les Paul was always in tune, the Tally was not. It was also partly because of the way they played it and like it was such a frustrating experience. Part of that like was very frustrating. And now thinking about how easy that is with an ever tune and you can just combine whatever the fuck you want because everything is in tune, yeah, that is, that is such a game changer and yeah, totally agree, totally agree.

Speaker 1: 1:08:18

The other fun thing to do all the time now too, is like I fucking use capos all the time and like change the tuning of the ever tune and like make weird tunings to make like the guitar riff in this verse so perfect where I never have to move and never have to do anything and lift a finger and each string is a thing and that's why it just sounds like this perfect arp. You know, it's like that. Stuff is stuff where, like you can't do that on a guitar, it just like it doesn't happen. You have to like compensate and like you have to constantly tune and compensate and it's like I bet like one of my like, like favorite like stories is like it was. It was midnight at Garth's place and we were doing guitar overdebs with story and the drummer was like you know, I have a like, I have an idea. Can we just try a quick 12 string overdab and we were up till 4am recording the one fucking 12 string part and song that we were trying to play A quick 12 string over the.

Speaker 1: 1:09:07

Four hours and it was like a tuning fucking nightmare to get this 12 string thing to play this chorus overdub that we were doing, you know, and like chord punching and tuning is just a fucking nightmare, like Insane yeah now I could just grab an ever tune, put a cape on another one and I got a 12 string, not a problem. Yeah what a take. A little. Third what if I spent 30 minutes on it? What if they don't even better?

Speaker 2: 1:09:29

With two episodes, you know, then four hours.

Speaker 2: 1:09:33

Yeah, that's funny. Yeah, all right. So what are let's? Let's make this a two-part thing. What are your? What is your number one? Like maybe there's no answer to this, but I'm just gonna try. What's the? If you had to pick one piece out of your Rex there, one analog piece? That's the only one you could keep. What would it be? And what's the one? Plug-in could be stock or third party. Whatever that you would keep. I could favorite plug in, favorite analog thing in general, if there's only one the desert island stuff.

Speaker 1: 1:10:00

Yeah, I mean my C2 is like one of the most important things. Like I yeah, without having, like I mean I, I've, I've tried every fucking bus cop in existence.

Speaker 2: 1:10:10

Man, I've owned fucking like 12 of them, like I have to ever try the C1 la, the 500 version of no, I would love to try that one.

Speaker 1: 1:10:17

I've actually never tried a see what either. Yeah, so okay, so little bus comp story for you. So you know, went to school, learned on the SSL 4k, so use that bus comp. And Day one, as I'm fucking working on it, I turn that bus cop on and I set it to like Eddie wall settings, because like I'm fucking like already in that world and like listening to those type of records and like learning about these things on the side of like going to school for this shit, and then they're like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. We don't turn that until after. We mix.

Speaker 1: 1:10:42

Like, yeah, like at that at my school they really mean like I was, like I got in trouble for turning on the bus cop before I fucking started doing things. Like I was doing things Wrong, you know so, but anyways, I fucking love that bus cop and I know exactly how it sounded. It was the thing where it's like it sounds like the records that I'm listening to when I turn this thing on, like this is like what this guy fucking uses and what Tom uses and like what any fucking record is doing that's mixed on it as so.

Speaker 2: 1:11:06

They fucking everybody mixes. Yeah, everybody mixes into it.

Speaker 1: 1:11:09

They don't put it on yeah, and you're getting that basic info from like gear slots at that time of like what settings you should try. You know what I mean. So point is like first thing I ever used was an actual bus comp on an actual desk and I got in trouble for it. So then what I like actually like needed to get a real bus come I, you know, I got, I got my distressors and I'm like you know I should get a real bus comp, and so I had like shared a studio with this guy, brian DeLisa, for a minute job. Brian is good guy, but he had a C2. So that was the first like one that I like really got to fuck with and like I don't know if you know about the C2, but the fucking crush is like one of the coolest settings on that thing and this. So I'm upset that I don't have two C2's, because I wish I had one just dedicated to crush, because it's one of my favorite fucking things and I would use it on drums or like parallel mix. I would you, I would use a crush bus all the fucking time if I had that. So, anyways, I love the C2.

Speaker 1: 1:11:50

So but when I moved out and like like got my own studio, like it was his C2 so I needed to get something. So I got. The first thing I got was the serpent and I really liked the serpent. It was like one of the first DIY guys doing at the time, you know, I mean and like. So I got his 500 series one the second it came out and I was like all right, cool. I was really stoked on that and I did like the width on that is pretty impressive.

Speaker 1: 1:12:08

Yeah, I did the. I did the early like state champs and like story stuff with that like and like. That was actually all summing into like my Lola preamps is shockingly but anyways was like I want to get something different. So I eventually got like an actual rewacked SSL. One didn't like it so that I got it. Like a red three didn't like it. That I got the Shadow Hills Vandagraph didn't like it.

Speaker 1: 1:12:28

Got like I just like kept going from there. I kept trying things like got like my other dude had an API tried it didn't like it. Like just kept going down everything and eventually like you know what? I'm just gonna buy a fucking C2 again. That was the one that I liked the most and so I got the C2 and, like you know, there's like people like Rob Schnaff and like those people are like dude.

Speaker 1: 1:12:46

The C1 is the one. The C2 is like a little lame. But I think the C2 sounds great. I really love like it's like clarity, its vibe, like and yeah, it just is like that's the thing like and so like maybe like at this point, like I'm getting like I'm falling more in love with the unfair child and I really love like that fair child and I could see like how, like Maybe I could live without the SSL if I had to, but like I wouldn't know how to like, I wouldn't know how to like print audio to like listen to in my car without that SSL compressor on it. It just doesn't sound. It doesn't sound like, it doesn't sound like a record to me.

Speaker 2: 1:13:17

You know, it doesn't sound like music without that on totally get it, man, like I got the C1 LA, the 500 version there in my wreck and I love the, the C2 as well, mainly for the crush feature. So I wish, I actually wish I had a C2, just for that, but my bus come would still be the C1 LA, probably because that that's just my personal favorite. But yeah, all of them are great.

Speaker 1: 1:13:35

Yeah, I remember Chris Krummet got one of those because he was like using on his vocal bus and he was like, fuck, I need to get one. I have a TK audio one now for my vocal bus.

Speaker 1: 1:13:44

It's actually really good. It reminds me a lot of that serpent one. It's got like the same, like it's clear, it holds, it, does the thing really well. It just like lacks this like sheen of, like Glossy finish that the actual like like SSL and like smart. Have you know what I mean? Like it, like it has it, like it has that five, but it, more so, has like the glue in the hold of it, and so I just use that one a vocal boss, that I use that my C2 on instrument bus, and they both meet at the unfair child right now, which is such a cool thing to say.

Speaker 2: 1:14:14

We can't forget we're talking to mainly DIY musicians. You will probably never have fair chat, fair child in their own studio. Maybe some do, I don't know. Yeah, but still so. I mean, this is what we are.

Speaker 1: 1:14:24

I just got that heritage grandchild now too, so I got two fair child in this fucking studio no, big deal.

Speaker 3: 1:14:30

No, I got a. I need one minute, guys, yeah sorry, I gotta run up. Please carry on.

Speaker 2: 1:14:34

All good, all good. Did you check out the audio scape one? Already I didn't hear it other than like I heard it at now, but, like you know, you don't hear it in detail, of course, but I was pretty impressed with the design and everything, down to even the power supply being fully tube based and all of that.

Speaker 1: 1:14:47

So yeah, that's cool. Yeah, I really like that guy. Chris, I think got all their stuff is like seems really well made. I I haven't, like I've only tried the 260 view which I have and I actually like I think that might be the best kick and snare cop in my studio right now, even though I have like the empirical labs pump and like the distressors and like I Obviously still haven't tried that unfair child on kick and snare because it's just always on mix bus and I'm just like now like trying to learn on the express. But yeah, I really like the the 260 that they have. I'm sure that fair child rocks and I'm sure like that. I really I want to try their 1178 and their 33609.

Speaker 2: 1:15:18

Yeah yeah, they're really great people, totally yeah, awesome. Now the same question about plugins is there one that you can't live without.

Speaker 1: 1:15:26

I really Plugin wise. I feel like that's kind of like the thing. That's really funny. It's like I I could actually do everything I do With just my hardware and no plug, and I know it, and like I've made entire records that way where I'm like I recorded through Analog and that as I was mixing, I was like Let me just print a couple of these eq's, blah, blah, blah, and there's nothing on the channels and the only things that are on the channels Is L1, and I think L1 would probably be the only plug-in I would ever need to Like accomplish the other, the end-of-box things that I wouldn't be able to do with the external line. Just I love that.

Speaker 2: 1:16:01

That's just so much because oh yeah, almost everybody is like the exact opposite. Almost everybody, even if they love analog. Almost everybody tells you and I would, I'm probably, say the same thing Sad filter in the queue.

Speaker 2: 1:16:13

No, no, everybody says no. Everybody says like I, I Could probably make an amazing record without any of the analog gear and just using stock plugins or whatever, or the Doll or my plugins. And you know, that's what most people say, and I think for many people this is also true, because not everybody works well with the analog stuff. It's like a very personal thing too, but it's so cool hearing you say the exact opposite. It's saying like I could probably make an entire record only using my hardware. I know the only plug-in I need is L in L1.

Speaker 2: 1:16:39

So this is pretty much the exact opposite of what almost everybody says.

Speaker 1: 1:16:42

Yeah, that's awesome, that's funny. Yeah, I was. I was assuming that you were gonna say that everyone, like said their desert island is the fab filter of pro queue, which is funny because that is my least favorite EQ and I cannot. I cannot make anything sound good in that plug and it does not work for me. The only way that I can get that plug into work is when I'm using it for matchy queue scenarios, and that's all.

Speaker 2: 1:17:01

That's why because that is in fact a go-to EQ for me as well, but not to make things sound exciting, I rarely boost on that thing.

Speaker 1: 1:17:08

It's just a surgical.

Speaker 2: 1:17:09

You know, yeah thing that I used to cut out things to just the flexibility of it and that the features basically not, not it. I don't even think about the sound, it's just the features of it. That's why I use it on everything for pro MB.

Speaker 1: 1:17:20

That's the. That's probably like the only other tool that like. That's like. One of the things that I get the most Tweaker about is like I'll open up pro MB and then grab an area and then fucking, like, be like like I'll be, like something Pokes out sometimes Let me go find that and figure out what's happening here and and or like something's like. Yeah, so that's like. It's really just like that. And now one for me like I could get by and do everything.

Speaker 2: 1:17:40

Cool, right, cool. Also, someone that many people mentioned is sooth. It's kind of has become kind of the one of those things that people can't seem to live without anymore, and that's.

Speaker 1: 1:17:50

That's another funny Valentine's story for you. You're gonna love this one. One of the ones was like, like there's a couple of these moments with Valentine that was actually pretty cool, like what. Like like to start off. Like you know, I'm next with the c2 and I was mixing with the stressors at the time, partly because, like I've always, there was always been my Drum bus, but like it also happens to be his drum bus, and so the only difference was I was on four to one of my distressors and then I was on Two to one on my c2, and when I worked with him, he used my exact session. He opened up my session and he had his c2 on, but it was set to three to one instead of two. And then he had the distressors, but it was such a 20 instead of four to one and 20 on he was using my exact session.

Speaker 1: 1:18:28

So like it was super easy for me to like sit there with him and be like go to this, what is like I turn, turn that off or whatever. So, like one of the songs I was like alright. So like one of the revisions here is the bass. Like like I'm missing all that like top end articulation from that stingray. Like it doesn't like sound like, sounds like it's not as like bright and like excited anymore. Like what do we got going on there and he like goes down and he like it looks at like the bass buses and he's like and like in the comments of the thing he hasn't marked where my volume was too, so he knows if he's like changed and stuff like that. Like he's just like methodical and he's like everything on here is like the exact same. Like said it, like it's your exact bass chain, nothing's changed. He's like oh, actually I did put soothe on it and I'm like, oh, my god, bypass that. And he bypassed. I'm like that's it, it's perfect. I hate that. Plug it so much. Okay, yeah, not a problem. So like that was like like, but one of those like you know, he's like well, I wonder like what? Like what we're gonna do. Like this revision sucks. You know anything? Science just sooth, it was there was the only thing that I heard. But that again, that's one of those type of things where, like the level of detail they bring into the thing that like if he just engages the soothe plug and I'm like that bass sucks, I hate it. Now, where is the? What happened all the life of it? It's like it's one tiny fucking thing, it's just fucking soothe and it's everything.

Speaker 1: 1:19:39

So anyways, I find that people really overuse soothe and like really like make things. Like me and Mark Lewis or best friends about this, like we both kind of know where they like soothe. But you know who is like one of my favorite soothe users, who's like blown my mind about it, is one of my new friends, this guy, clint Gibbs, who mixes like Kim Petrus the childhood compatriots almost watch it makes compatriots and like all the like dr Luke stuff that I've loved and he's just like phenomenal. But he is like a soothe Master with using it to sidechain and like duck for bass stuff and like does crazy stuff and like uses meters and like watches what soothe does to the meter to make sure that his bass is like fucking totally cool.

Speaker 1: 1:20:14

So like I've never, like I've never gotten along with soothe. I've. I think like if I, when I use it, it always sounds wrong to me. And what other people use it the way that I use it, it always sounds wrong to me. But like, when people use it like that and I hear in a context, I'm like fuck, that's so sick. And then I try it and it just doesn't fucking work for me.

Speaker 3: 1:20:29

I cannot get that part of it. I've just started doing it like side-chaining into soothe because I thought we got that interview, jason Joshua.

Speaker 1: 1:20:36

Oh cool, that's back in.

Speaker 3: 1:20:37

October, I think, and and yeah, he was using soothe heavily as a side-chain tool for yet I mean bass out of the way of like 808 kicks and stuff, and it was like Pretty cool.

Speaker 1: 1:20:46

Yeah honestly, it was working really well for him and I've had some success, but not total success, it's like I think the the Clint one like he said that it came in as a preset, and then he's like what? Like this is like life-changing, and then so like it's like the only thing you know how to do is like that one preset and like modify that kind of thing, like it's like it has to be like given to you and shown to you, but like that that's also like like guys like him and Jason like that's also like a cool thing we're like they're also working with like really fucking good pro tool sessions already You're in that are like actually have like some genius shit going in there, because these people are like Methodical psychos too.

Speaker 2: 1:21:16

So like the amount of tricks you're picking up from all the plugins that you have to like and it's probably pretty awesome, you know totally and and also I think it's Again just showing the difference between you working on your own productions yeah, you took the time to do things right from the beginning and capture tracks that are not problematic, versus someone Mixing all kinds of stuff recorded by all kinds of people in like less than ideal situations. So, for example, I personally I agree that people Overuse sooth heavily and I can often hear it in many guitars are just more white noise than than a guitar sound that sometimes, or like symbols, turn into white noise because they haven't. There's no, no resonance, nothing exciting anymore.

Speaker 1: 1:21:52

Yeah, it's like that's what I was saying earlier. It's like you discovered sooth, so now you use it on everything. Yeah, how amazing are you. You're an engineer now you know. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:22:02

But then again, I still love sooth and it's mainly because I I am only mixing. Now I stopped producing years ago and I'm full-time mixing and so I don't mix everything. If stuff is really crappy, I just don't do it, or I recommend, you know, retracking or whatever. I of course, do that, but still Much of the like, some of the stuff that I get to to work on, is still not ideal, of course, and it's DIY bands recording themselves or producers who maybe are not at like they don't work at the level that you are working at, and so I have to deal with like really harsh symbols or really harsh you know resonances and vocals that nobody caught for whatever reason, or problems in guitars and stuff like that. So for me, using it intentionally and Strategically in certain places, it's like really sometimes a lifesaver and just a very effective tool to to fix these things.

Speaker 2: 1:22:49

But I feel the same way about things that I record. If it's my own stuff, or even if I listen to sessions that I've done a couple years ago, I don't need to use it nearly as much, if at all, there just because I picked the right microphone, put it in the right spot and made you know, pick the right symbols and did all those things. And I guess that's part of the reason why if, if you put soothe One of your sessions Immediately, something is missing because it it's been that way for a reason.

Speaker 1: 1:23:14

Right, yeah, you don't have to.

Speaker 2: 1:23:15

You don't have to remove anything dramatically like so yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:23:19

Yeah, the a good tip, I guess, or a thing that I like to use a lot for anything that, like, I would use if I like. Like, if people are gonna reach for soothe, instead they should do.

Speaker 1: 1:23:29

They should try this one, which I like naturally reach for, which is the little freak plug-in, the empirical last one which is that a cue, but it's got the best de-esser and the best like high frequency limiter like on there and it's like dude you can just like and it's like meant for that. It's like kind of based off of like the fat zone, like how like the warmth setting works to like kind of like like Compress and like soften up the top end, but it's like one of the only things that I can do that like will soften something out Without making it sound like DS and without sounding dole, and it's still just like. It's like now not annoying in front of my face, but like what I hear soothe. It's like this what is happening? This is like some weird like broadband, like Blanket thing that I'm hearing and no matter how I turn this and I still always hear it, you know.

Speaker 2: 1:24:10

Yeah, it's interesting, it's it's some people's favorite tool, other people yeah. But I find it interesting because, almost like all of those answers that you gave make total sense when you explain them, and yet they are still the exact opposite of what most people tell you. And and and. I'm not saying either, like I'm not saying, those people are wrong and you're right, or the other way around it. Just what works for different people, it's just very interesting for me to hear this.

Speaker 1: 1:24:33

Yeah, that's also be like like people who are real engineers and do what we do. They're also like totally know that like what works for you is probably not gonna work for me, but what it does it's a fucking life-changing, amazing. Yeah, like today like my unfair child setting on my buddy David's mix. He's like dude, I didn't even know how I could make that mix even better. And like now it's like so much better, like oh my god. It's like like thankfully that thing works for him and we could be best friends.

Speaker 2: 1:24:54

Yeah that's why you keep chasing. That's also something I find interesting. That's why you keep chasing. You know things that other people do, but you're not copying one person and everything that one person does. You picking a thing from here and then the thing from there and the thing from that person, and you make your own thing out of all these different inspirations. So you constantly look and listen for things that you like in other productions, but it's not that you're copying one person. You are picking what works for you and you're ignoring things that don't work right.

Speaker 1: 1:25:20

So, yeah, another kind of good example of that too is like when you start going down the world of like drum machines and like fucking synths Like I'm a big 1975 fan and like you know big like Tim Apollo fan and stuff, like it's like what the fuck synths are these?

Speaker 1: 1:25:34

And then all of a sudden like like I go down the rabbit hole and then you learn about like the fucking sequential drum tracks and like the 707 and the 909, and then like every time you hear like a sequential drum tracks, or 707 is like that's a 707 like, so I'll listen like Tom Petty, I'll be like that's a 707 like, or like a DX7 patch, like you like hear it one time and you try and you're like, oh my god, that's a ha's take on me.

Speaker 1: 1:25:53

And like or that's this, like, wow, like that's the DX7, that's the M1, corg M1 piano, like I could just hear those things and like name them and no, so like I Find like my like favorite, like artists like that they all collect their favorite colors and they all have their own platform with their own color platform. Where it's like For piano, I reach for a Corg M1 and I reach for this thing and like so like that's like what you're talking about. I was like all my things are an amalgamation of all my inspirations and like what has worked for me. I'm like what is like my thing and it's like all directly pulled from my inspirations, you know.

Speaker 2: 1:26:24

Yeah, and at the end of the day, it's tools and a workflow and the thing that you've built for yourself that lets you serve the song and focus on the music. And it's not about those tools and about the gear it's. It's about using that to make the best possible version of that song that's in front of you. So that's also really interesting and inspiring as well to hear. Is that one cook at the impression when we talk about gear so much that gear is all that matters, but what really matters are the performances, the arrangements, the songs, as you said before a couple of times, and you just created an environment for yourself that lets you get the best out of those People that you work with and the best out of those songs and serve them in the best way possible, without having to think too much about the gear at All. It just serves you in what you're trying to to accomplish there.

Speaker 1: 1:27:04

This is Like what I'm doing is troubleshooting each moment so that I can get back to focusing on making the music really cool. And so it's like, if the overheads like sound like shit, I'll be like, why don't I try my fats on it? Wow, that sounds way sick. And then I never think about the overheads ever again and I can move on to the next day. You know what I mean Like like that's like what these things do for me is like they help me remove the Distractions and the things that are like sticking out to me is like Sam, you need to fix this thing right now. Like so that I, like I'm just Constantly and if I could do that, I'm just in a flow zone of like perfect arrangement, perfect performances, making the thing just like feel great and, like I've already done, the makes sound. Make it sound good thing, and it's just applied. You know.

Speaker 2: 1:27:46

Absolutely, Absolutely, yeah. So going back to your plugins, real quick, Sam, if someone's talking like thinking about buying, you know, maybe their first like third party compressor or other like fancy plug-in and they've only used stock plugins so far. What's a great place to start and like it doesn't have to be a compressor. But looking at your plugin suite, there you got the LED compressor, you got the Panda rooms, which is also a pretty cool tool, you got the channel strip SSL type thing, you got the view compressor, the micro limiter and so on and so forth. So what would you say is a great thing? That will almost make it like. That would almost everybody would benefit from having like as a starting point.

Speaker 1: 1:28:25

So, first of all, the EQ is fucking awesome, which, like, I have 10 of them in front of me that it's designed after and like the like everyone like, just like to talk about an EQ. Like, everyone loves an API EQ, and the reason they love an API EQ is because they have limitations and they could only put the knob at this setting and the frequency at this setting and they have to choose. There's no variability, there's nothing in between, and that's what all these people love about API EQs and is the step down aspect of it. So I'm like, I love my SSL EQs and what would be cool is that they were stepped. I'd be way more stoked if there's 1.5 dB steps. It'd be so much easier than for me to like have to like do a little variable in between of things, especially for recall when I'm doing my stuff like that. So, like that's one of the things is like I want this EQ in the box, but I want it to be stepped, and then this EQ also doesn't have a filter on it. So I want filters on this and then, ultimately, I want to be able to control how much harmonic content is happening in this thing because, like, if I run this thing pretty hot like a level wise I can clip it and it's like actually really cool, like I can get like a harmonic sound based upon how hard I'm running audio into this channel, strippy Q here, so then that's on the THD knob, you know, and so like all that is. And then the best part about it is like, what this EQ doesn't do in front of me is it doesn't auto volume compensate. So like what, now that I have the auto volume compensation, like dude, I like it was like such a dream.

Speaker 1: 1:29:37

The other day I was mixing our homie it's actually my nix homie this guy Ian I was mixing and he was talking about how he's like I want the bass to like come through the speakers more, like maybe let's like, let's like crank, like this, like like area of, like you know, like let's find the area to crank, and so I'm like, actually this is a perfect example let's crank, and now the bass gets quieter because we're just cranking and everything else gets turned down to compensate for the fact that we're doing that. So now we're losing low end, we're losing top end because we're just finding this mid range. Actually, if he wants the bass come up, what we should do is we should find where to cut, and it's going to turn it up and it's going to turn up the cards that he wants, so like. That's why I love using that EQ so much. Is that actually responds totally different than you're like. I want to turn this up to give it more definition. Actually, the way that's going to work is if you turn this down and have the auto volume compensation on, it's going to give you that exact effect with the total reverse process that you wouldn't have thought of, you know. So, anyways, I love that EQ, it's one of my favorite things.

Speaker 1: 1:30:26

And then like basic, modern, like forward, like channel, like compression, like the LED compass, that thing, so the modern sound that everyone is like trying to do, that, that is the fucking LED comp. That is what that compressor is. And then the more like gooier, like a little bit more saturated, like 1176 vibe, that is the VU comp. So it's like which of the two kind of vibes do you want, cause one of them is a little bit more like like saturated vibe. And then the LED comp is more like pumpy and awesome, you know, it's more like channel contained VCA comp that comps with an optional comp and then VCA comps. So that's like, and that EQ like right there, that's like all you fucking really need to get started from there and that's like.

Speaker 1: 1:31:08

Those are the plugins to recommend. Also, like one of my friends told me a long time ago, I should make a good video like. This is why you should not buy my EQ. And it's like we don't have squiggly lines for yellow stuff, because that's lame and that takes you away from actually listening and doing what we're supposed to be doing and like. Here's another reason why you shouldn't buy this EQ. It is like it isn't fully variable. Unless you click this thing, how inconvenient you are to be like. So like the negative marketing of this, like you know, is the thing that like sells it, you know.

Speaker 1: 1:31:35

Like it is not these things for a specific reason, you know like yeah, I love that.

Speaker 2: 1:31:40

That was exactly what I was hoping to hear and what that was setting in the beginning is these concepts, that how you rethought these classic tools and added features that make sense for your workflow. And, of course, there might be people who don't need that type of workflow who ask, like, why would I want this if it doesn't have to? So that feature? But again, who cares? Like? There's obviously also going to be people who see it the same way that you do it.

Speaker 1: 1:32:01

My target audience is myself.

Speaker 1: 1:32:02

And if myself is stoked, then, like other people are stoked too, and like that is how it's always been. If I think that what's coming out of the speakers is emotionally fulfilling and awesome to me, more people than I could ever think of in my life will think that about that music as well, too. You know what I mean Like. So if I could do that same thing with my plugins like it doesn't have to be for everyone, it's not meant for everyone, it's meant for me, and if it's meant for me and it works for me, then other people are going to enjoy that too Awesome.

Speaker 2: 1:32:27

So you know guys listening like people listening these plugins. Like you said, there's no subscription, it's a one-time purchase and they are really affordable. So if you look at that VU Comp right, it gives you three different, you know, 1170s type compressors, three different revisions, la3a kind of circuit as well.

Speaker 1: 1:32:47

And it's the best LA3A plugin in the market. Anyone who actually knows it's like. That's my favorite, like LA3A out of all the plugins that exist and that's my favorite plugin. That's my favorite thing in the VU Comp as well, too. Right, awesome.

Speaker 2: 1:32:59

Yeah, it gets you these four compressor types, basically not with exactly the same features. It's, again, not a perfect emulation, and shouldn't be. It's like a different thing, but it gives you these four compressors with a lot of bells and whistles. Still very easy to use, though, and it's, like you know, not even like 50 bucks here in Europe at least it's you know. It's around 50 euros, not even that and so that is kind of I don't even know what it is in dollars. It just automatically shows me the Euro value if I go to the page, but it's incredible value, and all of those plugins are priced like that. The AQ is even more affordable and it's a one time thing and you can get your hands on like really well made, like high end sort of fancy plugins that add something that your stock plugins don't do without having to really spend a lot of money, and I think that's amazing.

Speaker 1: 1:33:41

So that's why I always have to do and if you have any issues and you hit up support, it's me and I will be your best friend and personally help you.

Speaker 2: 1:33:49

And that's invaluable. I mean, that's another thing. You know I'm stoked about tools like that for our audience because, yeah, whenever I can recommend tools that I think are really great and I've tried those plugins so I know what I'm talking about in it and then you know if I can recommend stuff like that and it's it's. It's such a great price point as well, and the people behind it are great. That's what I love to recommend and do on the show. And so, yeah, same with the Audioscape guys. Right, I just keep recommending their stuff, just because I don't not only like the products, I like the people behind it and everything about it. And it's the same same here yeah, good humans.

Speaker 2: 1:34:19

Yeah, great man Love this. So what do we, man? I got so many more questions but, like we are, you know, running out of time here slowly. Like Malcolm, what is there anything you want to add before I ask my final thing here?

Speaker 3: 1:34:30

I mean, my question is non consequential or educational, but is your Panda Studios your old bedroom?

Speaker 1: 1:34:37

My current studio? Yes, no, so this is. This is a like 2,500 square foot warehouse that we?

Speaker 3: 1:34:44

it was nothing that we completely. I was reading an interview of yours and somebody said that you started it in your bedroom.

Speaker 1: 1:34:52

Yeah it started in my mom's house and this is actually my seventh studio I was suddenly seeing like existing stuff for a long time. But yeah, this, I've been here 13 years in this exact spot and yeah, it was absolutely fucking nothing. It was an empty warehouse and we built absolutely everything in here.

Speaker 3: 1:35:07

Wow, awesome, that's a really wild, very cool.

Speaker 2: 1:35:11

What is it about that? The Panda? Actually, I didn't even ask, like what's the Panda all about?

Speaker 1: 1:35:15

The Panda is fucking rock dude, why not? No, it started when I was in. It's actually kind of a funny story this guy will know how I'm talking about, but there's a local punk band called the Nerve Agents. They were a pretty fucking big band and a lot of people fucking respected them and I. They were just like very. They came up with like AFI and like a lot of these like cool, like OG Gilman guys. One of the like you know, emo goth like punk bands, super cool.

Speaker 1: 1:35:34

Anyways, the singer of that band it was like an older guy than me. He actually was in my audio class at my audio school and at that time I was like always opening up my laptop and showing him the live baby panda webcam that was happening at the San Diego Zoo. It was the first time that they were having a live birth on webcam. This was like 2003 or like 2004 or five era, and so, anyways, I would always show him the panda and be like look at this thing, look how fucking cute this thing is. And he was like, super like. Like he just thought I was like dumb and stupid.

Speaker 1: 1:36:03

And so he one day I walked into the cafeteria and there was this like sign that was up. It was like attention, all panda lovers. My name is Sam Pura and I want to organize a weekly meet and greet to discuss like the updates of like the baby panda webcam and like I like was like reading this thing on the board and I like looked around and then I just like saw him like sitting and like laughing like you fucking asshole dude. So then it just like it was my thing, like like the panda, it was just it became like so when I needed to create a my space for my studio and name it and like the panda studios, it just would have became that's such a cool story and it's just like cool, Like we just have all these trinkets and like pandas, rock dude, like so anytime.

Speaker 1: 1:36:39

It's like it's cool, I'm like I've hijacked a panda. It's like when people see pandas like they think of Sam. They don't even think about the panda themselves. They're not even like oh wow, this is a bear and it's really cute. They're like Sam. The amount of pan of shit that people buy me, it's tight. You know, I'm just like collecting. It could be argued that I probably own the most panda trinkets as a human.

Speaker 2: 1:36:59

That's so funny. Thank you for sharing that Awesome. That, yeah, I never. I didn't know, I was always wondering, but I just kind of accepted the fact that the panda is your thing without knowing what it's all about. So that's great, cool. Now where should we? Where should we send people to? So of course, there's purifiedcom. This is the plugin site. Then there is the pant. Is it the panda studios or pandastudioscom?

Speaker 1: 1:37:21

No, yeah, the pandastudioscom because we are several studios. It's all three of them, the band studios. There we go.

Speaker 2: 1:37:27

Yeah, I'm going to put all of that in the show notes, of course. So in the YouTube description and also the show notes page of this episode, if you go to the self recording bandcom slash number of the episode, you will find all the detailed show notes there, all the links to Sam stuff. I'm just going to put everything in there, like your socials, your purified, your studio that people can connect and find you yeah, instagram too, sam Peer.

Speaker 1: 1:37:48

It's my main place, there you go.

Speaker 2: 1:37:50

Yeah, totally, and I would highly recommend. Honestly, it's very interesting, I mean just following your work and what you do a little bit, because you, you know, you post a lot, you comment a lot online or on Facebook, you engage in kind of discussions and you're clearly very opinionated. You have clear opinions, strong opinions, and you will, you know, defend them. And it's not always everyone's opinion, which is, of course, fine. But I always find those conversations very insightful, even if I don't fully agree with everything that everybody always says. But, like it's, it's always really clear who knows what they're talking about and who doesn't. And I think you can make up your own, you know you can make an opinion, but I think those conversations are really insightful often and I think it's worth following you and social for that reason alone.

Speaker 2: 1:38:34

You drop a lot of knowledge bombs there and a lot of interesting person.

Speaker 1: 1:38:38

There's people who think I rock and there's people who absolutely fucking despise me, and that's cool. I'm totally happy with that.

Speaker 1: 1:38:43

I'm happy to have my own fucking ways of doing things and it's funny because I keep referencing my homie here because he rocks, but he has a client, but he's barber and so like one day he called me and it was just like yo, I have this like one client who like said that like, apparently, like, like you're an asshole and like he doesn't, like he would never work with you because like you're an asshole. It's like, oh okay, that guy came and made a record with me and like we're fucking best friends now. The guy that he said that like thought.

Speaker 3: 1:39:05

I was an asshole.

Speaker 1: 1:39:06

So, anyway, his point is like you know, like you either fuck him up or you hate me. You know, and now we're fucking. So we convert it. It was easy, all we had to do was work together and make a record, and it was amazing.

Speaker 2: 1:39:15

So yeah, absolutely, so I hope that this episode. Sorry, what was that Like? So beware. I'm a boys and guy Exactly, but I also. I'm pretty sure that after this episode you've gained a few more best friends, hopefully, and I'm pretty sure about that, so I'm happy to talk audio yeah. You're a totally cool man. Anything you wanted to say, sam, or point people to or talk about or mention here before we wrap this up, did we miss anything?

Speaker 1: 1:39:41

I, clint Gibbs is one of my favorite mixers and one of the coolest guys that's making some of the coolest shit right now. I fucking absolutely love his work. Also, I'm really inspired by this guy, andrew Mowry. He's also a really funny guy, but he's got incredible fucking mixes that I've just been listening to a lot recently referencing. And then, besides that, the Caroline Polacek album that came out last year is like the best album ever and you should totally fucking listen to that. And Jeff Swan mixed that album and Jeff Swan fucking rocks. But yeah, like I just fucking I love listening to fucking music all the time. I love like constantly researching mixers and like mastering guys and like seeing what they're up to and like just like building my reference playlist and always like identifying like what makes me want to come into work and make really cool sounding shit every single day, and like that type of shit is like those songs and those people that I just recommended. Like go down the rabbit hole and you'll be fucking super inspired by it. Guarantee.

Speaker 2: 1:40:30

So that I get from that that you are not one of those people who can't listen to music anymore, because they listen to music all day anyways. So many of our peers just don't listen to music outside of work, basically because they say they can't.

Speaker 1: 1:40:43

So there's this guy named AG Cook who I'm absolutely fucking fascinated by.

Speaker 1: 1:40:47

He's like one of my favorite songwriters and he just puts out so much fucking content. But like the thing that I find like the magical experience of like what we do is like when I listen to AG Cook I try to be critical and I'm like, damn, that's a cool kick. Sound like wow, that's a cool like synth, sound like that's a cool thing and no matter what. Every single time I fucking am listening to a song, I get lost and I forget that I'm even being critical and I'm just like listen, I'm experiencing music and it just connects with me and it just like makes me feel so inspired and like, so, like emotionally and like spiritually and creatively fulfilled and every single time I listen to this stuff it just like blows me away at a level that makes it a level of detailing and like I it's just I get lost in how amazing the content is every single time and like I'm just like there's no distractions, I'm just like completely like immersed and like connected with like the song and like that's like the like. I'm always constantly looking for that and trying to make that happen for people and like what's cool is like like the records that I have done that really connect with people, like they basically kind of try to explain that that's what they love about the records.

Speaker 1: 1:41:52

To me, like I'm like I don't want to sound like I'm like gassing you up and like, man, I listen to that record all the time in my car. So I fucking get it. You know, I totally get it. Like I've listened to that record billions of times making it, you know, so like. But yeah, it's just like, you know, just trying to get to this point where, like when we listen, like I just like I'm constantly like seeking inspiration and stuff that just like feels so beyond to me and so like, like I just can't even like I have no complaints I can't even like like articulate, like how, like beyond my capabilities, it is to achieve something like that is that song that's coming out of those speakers like that's the type of shit I want to listen to all the fucking time and that's the only type of shit I want to be influenced by is like shit. That's just like years beyond me, you know.

Speaker 2: 1:42:34

Love that answer.

Speaker 1: 1:42:35

Thank you.

Speaker 2: 1:42:36

All right, man. Thank you so much once again for taking the time to do this. It was really really really helpful and really inspiring, exciting. I think it shows people kind of you know where the bar actually is, what you like, what is required to make great records, but it's also inspiring in a way. I don't think anybody should be intimidated by that as well, because all the things you talk about, they are doable. It's just might be more difficult on your own, and but there's always ways to collaborate with others and, yeah, it's inspiring, helpful and I think everybody will take away something from that.

Speaker 1: 1:43:09

Yeah, I guess the thing about this is, if you're going to do it, you just have to fucking actually do it. You know, you just got to immerse yourself and like actually, just kind of like you know, commit to this, this is, this is my life. What I'm doing right here, this is my fucking life, you know.

Speaker 2: 1:43:20

And you can and you can tell man that passion just comes through in everything you say and it's like you can. Just that's what I was saying to you at Nam, where I was like man, like those that half an hour of you talking there at the audioscape so far, I was like can you do that exact thing on the podcast and just talk about gear and audio the way you just did?

Speaker 2: 1:43:36

because that passion is like infectious and amazing and so yeah, that's exactly it and if you have that kind of passion, it's almost impossible to not get better over time, right? So yeah, there you go.

Speaker 1: 1:43:46

Great man, thank you so much for taking the time, absolutely.

Speaker 3: 1:43:49

Appreciate you being on and thank you very honest. Yeah, thank you, sam, appreciate it so much.

Speaker 2: 1:43:54

Awesome. Let's stay in touch and I hope that our listeners will reach out and if they do, I'm just gonna forward questions to you or they can reach out directly to you. But also, I know that you're busy, so don't feel the need to to respond to anything we're sending you. You got it Alright, take care, man.

Speaker 1: 1:44:09

Cheers guys, cheers. I'm gonna actually exit now.