211: Multitrack Recorder VS Computer + DAW

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Episode show notes:

Surprisingly, some of our subscribers are telling us that they are using standalone multitrack recorders instead of computers. 

We actually get these kinds of messages pretty regularly.

So, is it a good alternative? Are there any advantages to using a device like that? Or should you just get an interface and a DAW and start using a computer to produce your music?

Let's discuss!



PS: Please join the conversation by leaving a comment, a rating and review, or a post inside our free Facebook community.

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For links to everything we've mentioned in this episode, as well as full show notes go to: https://theselfrecordingband.com/211
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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

The tool is never the problem, it's how you use the tools. If you want to make a record without editing, you can still do that on a computer. Just you know. Make the decision not to edit, that's your your call. I don't understand it, but it's your call, right. So it's not that the computer is making your music over edited, it's that you're over editing your music. So, like whatever reason you want to use that or not use a computer, you can still use a computer and achieve that exact same result.

Speaker 2: 0:27

This is the self recording band podcast, the show where we help you make exciting records on your own wherever you are DIY style, let's go. Hello and welcome to the self recording band podcast. I'm your host, benedict Heijn. If you are new to the show, welcome. If you are already a listener, welcome back. We appreciate you all. This show is available on all kinds of podcast apps Spotify, apple podcasts, wherever you enjoy podcasts and it's also available on YouTube If you want to watch the video.

Speaker 2: 1:01

By the way, if you are a listener of ours and you watch it on YouTube, you might be wondering what's going on. I'm not at my studio. I'm also not traveling anymore. I'm home, but like I'm really home now in my like, actual home, it must say my office here recording this, talking into my laptop, mike in, and using my phone as a camera. So that's why this is all a little different, but we got to do it that way today. Hope that works and hope you can hear as well, and it sounds kind of okay. We'll be back to a normal thing, hopefully very soon. That being said, one more thing before we dive into the episode. I want to apologize because I know I've been dropping the ball when it comes to releasing the episodes, and people have told me that. So I just want to say that we still managed to do weekly episodes, but we kind of didn't do it every Wednesday. We'll be back to the normal routine very soon, I promise you. So we're not going to stop the podcast or anything like that. We still do weekly episodes and very soon it's going to be a routine again. Very sorry for that, just very busy times. If you listen to the last couple of episodes, you know why. We'll be back very, very soon.

Speaker 2: 1:56

Now today we talk about something that I think we've never talked before on the show, and this is recording music without a computer. And the reason for why we want to talk about this is that I get emails pretty frequently from our listeners and subscribers who tell me that they don't use computers to record. They record on like a multitrack. There's like the. You know, the first one that comes to mind is like a task cam, sort of multitrack hardware recorder.

Speaker 2: 2:22

There's different models out there, but there's people who use those instead of computers, and some tell me the reasons for it, and it's mostly about being afraid of using computers or computers failing or whatever, or the learning curve or whatever, and sometimes I don't know what the exact reason is. But I find it interesting enough, and it happens often enough that I felt like we should talk about that on the podcast and whether or not it's a good idea there's pros and cons and maybe convince you, if you're doing that, to try a computer. But we'll see. So, as always, I'm doing this with my friend and cohost, malcolm Owen Flutt. Hello, malcolm, how are you? It's been a while.

Speaker 1: 2:57

Hey, vinny, I'm great man. It's good to be chatting with you again, for sure, yeah, yeah, on the podcast not coming out on Wednesday, things, it's all good. Problems we're having? Yeah, don't worry folks, things are very good, we're just it's it's growing pains.

Speaker 2: 3:12

It's growing pains, for sure. Yeah, yeah, but how have you been like the last couple of weeks? Actually, it's been like two more than two weeks since we did the last episode and, yeah, crazy busy times, yeah man, I've been.

Speaker 1: 3:24

I've been really good, really good. I I got COVID, but I've been really good. It all it's. It's been a lot. It's been a lot for you, it's been a lot for me. It's all all exciting. This year is going to be so much fun. There's so much cool stuff coming up, but yeah, just got to keep trucking away. I'm finally feeling healthy again right now and going to go for a run after this episode. I'm super excited to be able to move again.

Speaker 2: 3:50

Dude, I'm happy for you. Yeah, I just I just came in from from around earlier today and it's been a while for me too, because I actually got sick as well in the U? S. So, yeah, happy for you to feel that you feel better again and I'm I'm excited for our normal routine also because those three weeks, as exciting as they were I'm really happy that I'm now back in getting back into my normal routine and and moving things forward and taking action on all those opportunities that have been there. Get back into the flow, exactly, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 4:16

Yeah, it's going to be, it's going to be fun, but yeah recording without computers.

Speaker 1: 4:21

This is a I'm sure there's. Well, as you told me, benny, you mentioned that this question comes up. Our topic comes up a lot from students and people emailing the podcast and the community. So there are definitely people out there that are commonly trying to record their music without a computer, which totally fascinates me, because I'm sure that all of the other people listening to this that haven't been considering that option are like wait, people do that. They tried to record without a computer in 2024. So it's really fascinating, right, it's. That's so foreign sounding nowadays, but it is funny because when I think back to initially trying to record music, yeah, that was a thing I had well, I didn't have, but the singer in my band, rob Wilkinson who you know, benny, he had this, I think it was Boss made it this big brick of a recording multi-track recorder with different faders. It was like a full studio in a box really, I had that one too.

Speaker 1: 5:23

Yeah, yeah, we released music off that thing, I'm pretty sure as a band, which is crazy.

Speaker 2: 5:29

Totally. That reminds me. I had that one too. Mine was a eight channel, at least it had eight faders, I think there was a. Cd burner built into it where you could burn CDs from whatever you did and also slot for car. It wasn't even SD cars that were these giant square kind of whatever they are called.

Speaker 1: 5:49

Yeah, some old school media.

Speaker 2: 5:52

Yeah, but I remember the first demos that I've done for other bands like when I've started recording friends and getting into this whole thing, they were done on this thing. But even then I remember I transferred the recordings, like I took that thing through the jam spaces recorded on it and then I transferred the files to a computer and then used I think it was MixCraft or something like that back in the day, to quote unquote, mix it. So I didn't even do the full thing there other than a few demo recordings. So very early on I realized that it's kind of limited compared to what a computer can do. But yeah, I think many of us have used those in the past.

Speaker 2: 6:26

Yes, so can you think of a good reason to opt for something like that and not as like a set of using a computer.

Speaker 1: 6:36

No.

Speaker 2: 6:40

I think we're really biased.

Speaker 1: 6:41

You know, like Benny and I, like we're, we're sappy with our computers. So it's, the computers aren't intimidating to us at this point, so it's hard for us to put ourselves in that shoe. I will say that maybe the hurdle that I could see an argument being made for that I couldn't argue back is that computers are computers are really expensive. You know, it's amazing how much computer you can get for such little money nowadays, but it doesn't change the fact that they are devices that costs like thousands of dollars, Like it's, they're expensive machines. So I told you understand that there's somebody listening to this podcast that just can't even imagine. So that argument makes a lot of sense to me. That use the tools you have, of course. Use an iPhone to make your record if you have to, you know.

Speaker 2: 7:28

Yeah. So that's what I wanted to say. But all like, when I say use a computer, I'm assuming you have a computer or the means to buy one, and even if it's just a cheap one, if you don't have access to one, access to one, yeah, If you don't have one, that's actually a good point. That's what I wanted to say too. It's like you don't need. You don't just need the computer, you also need the interface, right, and the software or whatever. I mean there's free stuff out there, but you need the interface at least. So I could see that if someone has really, if they don't need a computer in their life, they're fine without one. All they would use it for is like music, and they don't want to spend money on that. Or they don't have the money, but they could get one of these recorders, for I don't even know what they cost these days, but like a few hundred bucks maybe and then you'd have basically your recording device and your interface and all of that in one thing.

Speaker 2: 8:12

I could see that that makes sense. That seems to make sense for someone. So totally. And I think if you are really, you know learning the thing well and you putting in the effort and the practice and whatnot. You could make good sounding stuff on those things, probably, right, it's like definitely there's some someone's out there who made a killer record on one of those things for sure. I just still think it's going to be way harder than doing it on a computer and I honestly also think that it's. I would probably rather save up for a little longer and then get a used whatever computer as a starting point and limit myself in terms of plugins and get a free doll and get a cheap interface. I would still rather do that than spend 300, 400, 500 bucks on a recorder like that, because it won't be that much more expensive to get started with a computer. Right, it doesn't have to be something fancy, but I would rather have like a 10 year old computer and a cheap interface and a free DAW than one of these recorders. Probably still 100%.

Speaker 1: 9:07

Yeah, I think that the people that are wanting to use an external standalone recorder like this, that aren't just opposed to spending money on a computer, that are doing it because they're scared of computers is probably the biggest reason need to understand that this device they're using the standalone recorder is a computer. It is that it's just a computer that can only do one thing really, and they're actually really confusingly laid out. In my experience they're not easy to use. You're learning how to use it and then it becomes easy right, and it is the exact same thing with a DAW. So I really encourage you to kind of get over the hurdle and just get used to a DAW. And, like Benny said, there's a like Reaper told the free and it's amazing what it can do. You can do professional. There's professionals that use Reaper, so it's totally something you can figure out. But it's just a learning curve like anything. You just have to rip that bandaid off.

Speaker 2: 10:06

Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally agree with all you said there and I think it's partly being afraid of computers. And then I think there and yeah, that's just what you just said there is the solution for that. You just have to try it and then see that it's actually not that terrible and realize that this other device can also crash and give you headaches and problems because it is a computer. But then there's this other side of it where I think some people actually think it's better because you know there's, I know for sure that there's a group of people who think you know, computers ruin music because you start editing things too much and it's unnatural and I would rather have not have a screen and it's like more organic that way and all those things the same arguments that people have for using tape machines. Basically, right To that, I want to say that Using a computer means you have all the options in the world, but it doesn't mean you have to use them all. But it's great to have access to some of those things in case you need them, and I don't think that there's any advantage to, you know, these digital recorders. There's not even the argument that some people have with tape where they say well, it has a sound. I don't even believe in that when it comes to tape, necessarily, because there's yeah, I don't want to get into that but for those digital recorders they are computers, so there is a conversion that's probably not as good as your interface there is. You know, there's digital software doing the processing which is probably not as good as the plugins you would have on your computer. There's very limited editing options there. So if you have to fix the occasional mistake or any of that, it's very hard to do, which is probably what people want when they like they don't want the computer because they're afraid they're going to edit it too much and stuff.

Speaker 2: 11:43

But I'd say even the most organic record would benefit from a little fix here and there. Or maybe it's not about fixing things or making them fake. Maybe you can make it feel even better by intentionally moving things where they are supposed to be. And I don't see a computer as like something that takes away from whatever the art was that happened in front of the mic. I see it as something that can give me an even better version of what I have in my mind or what I captured in front of, like what I did in front of the mic. I don't see it as a thing that ruins that. I see it as a tool that can bring out the best in it, like and so I don't think there's any reason to be afraid for one or the other reason.

Speaker 2: 12:26

Like, I don't think so. I don't think there is an advantage. And if your problem is that you're going to be distracted by the computer or whatever, maybe just turn off the screen. Turn off the screen while you're listening for a few minutes or when you're tracking, create a loop or something. Don't look at the screen, turn it off and just play if that is distracting you. But if you need it, it's great to have it and you're going to need it at some point, so you know yeah, and there's nothing magical about these recorders?

Speaker 2: 12:50

because they're cheap digital devices. They are. They are just as digital as the computer setup, just limited in functionality, and they sound worse. So they sound terrible.

Speaker 1: 13:00

The preamp like and digital conversion quality has come a long ways in the last while. You know, and I wouldn't I mean I don't know this because it's been so long since I used one, but I would imagine that their latency is probably a little suspect. Even they're probably slow. So recording drums, the you know one's probably kind of a nightmare. Yeah, you know, like what you said, I think, really sums up to the. The tool is never the problem, it's how you use the tools. Yeah, if you want to make a record without editing, you can still do that on a computer. Just, you know, make the decision not to edit, that's your, your call. I don't understand it, but it's your call, right? So it's not that the computer is making your music over edited, it's that you're over editing your music. So, like you could, whatever reason you want to use that or not use a computer, you can still use a computer and achieve that exact same result.

Speaker 2: 13:56

Yeah, 100%, yeah, exactly. Also, I think it's worth, and that might be also part of it. You don't know what you don't know, so you got to realize and it's worth talking about this real quick. You got to realize the components that are like what this thing is actually made of, like the components that are in this box, like what, what is in such a recorder and why is it worse than using a computer? So if you use a computer system, even if you use free stuff, you have, you have someone who put time, resources, energy, money into creating the software you're gonna use. They are specialists. They only do the software part and they're great at it and it's awesome, even the free stuff. And there's someone who built the actual machine that runs. All of that they run. They built the parts of the computer and it's the system. Everything runs on. They do that.

Speaker 2: 14:41

Then there is an interface which is the connection between the digital world and, like, the outside. So you have the actual interface. Then you have conversion, meaning your analog signals need to be converted to digital and back so you can hear it. So that's a component. Someone built that in an interface and focused on that. Then there's the preamps, so you plug your mic into something that Amplifies your microphone signal and that's called a mic preamp. That's built into your interface or is external or whatever. But that's another part.

Speaker 2: 15:08

And like all these things, and the recorder that is very cheap, has all of those things in one box. There's no way that any of these companies can do all of these things very well, no way. Like there's the bare minimum in terms of software, the bare minimum in terms of processing power. There's some very cheap converter chip. That's probably, you know, the same you would find on any like consumer Electronic thing. You know, like it's just a standard, whatever cheap chip that converts from analog to digital and back. Then you have Probably less than ideal latency, like you said. Then you have definitely noisy mic preese, then you probably don't have a good power supply and all like all these things. That's the price you pay for that all-in-one solution. And so that's that's why I don't think yeah, that's why I just think it makes so much sense to even get a cheap computer, a free software, a hundred dollar interface, and you'll be better off and probably don't even spend that much more.

Speaker 1: 16:01

So yeah, mm-hmm, yeah, I it's so hard, we're so biased.

Speaker 2: 16:09

Yeah, but I still. I still want to say, though, if and I'm genuinely interested I made this episode not to tell people that you can't use a recorder. I'm telling you, of course I have an opinion, like you, obviously, but you, I'm made, I want to. I wanted to make this because I'm genuinely interested. I really want to understand what's behind this, because it happens really often that people tell me that. And if there's any good reason for it, or if you try both and got better results with that one, like let me know. I'm really.

Speaker 2: 16:35

I really want to know, I want to Know why people keep telling me this and asking for this. And if it's purely because of the reasons we just mentioned, like price or being afraid of computers or Computers making music terrible, or whatever, then I think you should give it a try. But if there's any other reasons, let us know, because I'm really interested and I'm not. I'm not saying it can't be done. I just said that I've tried both and I definitely know what I want to use. There's no logical sort of thing that I can right now think of that would make sense. But that doesn't mean it can't be done and it doesn't mean there isn't any Advantage. So Recording right that you made with that thing.

Speaker 1: 17:12

So yeah, yeah, I know that like that's the perfect summary. I thought a lot of this episode was Danny and I trying to like devil's advocate it and and just trying like put ourselves Into those shoes to try and figure out why. And we can't do it. Maybe, like the maybe the biggest argument is to just use the tools you have, and I totally get that. And then the other argument I could see is like, hey, this is fun, we're doing something intentionally as an experiment for fun. Oh, that's super badass. Yeah, do it.

Speaker 2: 17:41

It's, there's a story there.

Speaker 1: 17:42

I think that's really cool. You know, cut a single with one and be like and you know you can. That's something you communicate with your audience. I think that is rad.

Speaker 2: 17:49

Totally like. Also, people still using these four track tape recorders or something right like the cassette tape recorders. I got, totally get why they're using that. They know that it's not better than a computer, but it's an intentional, fun way of making a record or demo or whatever. So I totally get that. It's a different story, though. So, and also now that we have this episode, I have something that I can send those people when I get these questions. This is also. It's also great and one I forgot. I completely forgot another good point here. I think at least so.

Speaker 2: 18:16

If you are On my email list and email me that you don't use a recorder and all, you don't use a computer and all of that, that means you're still interested in learning how to produce and record yourself. That's why you're on that email list. You probably downloaded some of our free guides. You listen to the podcast, whatever. So you are in our little bubble here and are interested in improving your craft and improving your skills as an engineer, self-recording band, whatever so, and that means You're looking for resources and education. You may be looking, you're looking at things like this podcast You're looking at. You know, with YouTube videos, downloads, coaching courses, whatever. It's very hard to help you and to get better.

Speaker 2: 18:59

If you say I only use these recorders because literally all the education out there like almost all the education out there every single Video, every single podcast, every course, our coaching program, all those things are Computer-based, like everything we teach is like this is how you do it in a doll like I've never seen.

Speaker 2: 19:14

Maybe there is one, but I've never seen a program or a course or a tutorial, unless it's specifically about that piece of gear. But I've never seen anything where someone is showing you how to make a record on a piece of gear like that. So this means if you want to get really good results which is the case because that's why you emailed me in the first place and you took the time to download the stuff and go through our content so if you want to really get better, it's gonna be super hard because I can't I wouldn't even be able to offer you my coaching or our courses. It wouldn't make sense because nothing in there is about using those those things. It's all in the dog and you couldn't do what I show you on a recorder like that. So that's another angle here that I wanted to to to address and talk about because, yeah, I wouldn't even be able to help you.

Speaker 1: 19:54

It's a really good point. Honestly, you you need to communicate in a way that people can help you with and, and this makes it pretty Tricky using some niche recorder that, like nobody else has yeah, makes it really tricky.

Speaker 2: 20:08

Some of the principles to apply. I mean, I could teach you you know where to place the mics and like the basic recordings.

Speaker 2: 20:13

Which are very important, so I definitely could teach you that, but I all the content, all the the great resources that we've built, that we use to educate Our students they would not be of much mouth, of much value to you and you're missing out on so much. That's what I'm trying to say. Also, you know everybody has their favorite YouTube educator or whatever, and like it's gonna be very hard to find a lot of good resources If you don't want to use a computer, so you might be unnecessarily limiting yourself and and that's what I want to avoid because I know You're interested, I know you want to get better. That's why you take the time to consume our stuff and email me, and so maybe you should give it a shot.

Speaker 1: 20:46

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think so I think you got to embrace the computer. You'll learn to love it, it'll. It'll make you more powerful than ever. It'll become a wizard of audio.

Speaker 2: 20:55

Totally or if you really like. That's one thing you briefly touched on. If you have an iPad or a phone instead of a computer, maybe use that. There's almost of all of the dolls have like a mobile version now or some order. There is specific mobile Dolls. Maybe use that. That will still be better than one of those recorders. So there's that like yeah, yeah, all right.

Speaker 1: 21:16

Yeah, it's a short episode, but I think that covers pretty much everything there is to cover on this, honestly.

Speaker 2: 21:22

Yeah, I think so too. So thank you for listening. If you want to know what the whole email thing is that I talked about, or whatever, if you just happen to find this podcast, we got plenty of free downloads. So in the description of this episode you'll find ways to join our community. You can get on our email list, download our free guides. We deliver a ton of value through these emails. We don't spam you. You can apply for our coaching program. You can join our Facebook community. So if you're new to this and wonder how what kind of communication I'm talking about, once you are in our sort of ecosystem here, you'll see what I'm talking about. So just sign up for one of those things. There's no pressure, it's all free, and we want to. I'd love to welcome you in our community and then hopefully get to talk to you personally as well and answer your questions. So yeah, do that.

Speaker 1: 22:05

Do it All right.

Speaker 2: 22:07

Thank you for listening and watching as always, and see you next week. Bye, bye. See you next time, bye.