Here are three next steps for you to take:
1. Get our free video training & checklist, "Standout Mixes - The DIY Musician's Guide To Exciting Mixes That Stand Out And Connect":
theselfrecordingband.com/standoutmixes
-
2. Apply for The Self-Recording Syndicate, our personalized coaching program!
It all starts with a free clarity call where we talk about your music, give you feedback and a step-by-step roadmap that you can then implement on your own, or together with us.
Best case: We end up working together and completely transform the sound of your music forever.
Worst case: You get an hour of free coaching, feedback and recommendations for what to do next.
Sounds fair? Cool. Apply now and book your free clarity call:
theselfrecordingband.com/call
-
3. Join the free Facebook Group ("The Self-Recording Band Community"):
theselfrecordingband.com/community
--
Episode show notes:
Jacob Hansen is joining us for this week's episode!
Jacob has worked with some of the biggest names in metal and alternative music. He's produced and or mixed records for bands like Volbeat, Arch Enemy, Amaranthe, The Black Dahlia Murder, Heaven Shall Burn, Evergrey, Fleshgod Apocalypse, Primal Fear and many many more.
We're getting to pick Jacob's brain and talk about
among many other things.
Enjoy!
--
For links to everything we've mentioned in this episode, as well as full show notes go to: https://theselfrecordingband.com/204
--
If you have any questions, feedback, topic ideas or want to suggest a guest, email us at: podcast@theselfrecordingband.com
Here are three next steps for you to take:
1. Get our free video training & checklist, "Standout Mixes - The DIY Musician's Guide To Exciting Mixes That Stand Out And Connect":
theselfrecordingband.com/standoutmixes
-
2. Apply for The Self-Recording Syndicate, our personalized coaching program!
It all starts with a free clarity call where we talk about your music, give you feedback and a step-by-step roadmap that you can then implement on your own, or together with us.
Best case: We end up working together and completely transform the sound of your music forever.
Worst case: You get an hour of free coaching, feedback and recommendations for what to do next.
Sounds fair? Cool. Apply now and book your free clarity call:
theselfrecordingband.com/call
-
3. Join the free Facebook Group ("The Self-Recording Band Community"):
theselfrecordingband.com/community
--
Episode show notes:
Jacob Hansen is joining us for this week's episode!
Jacob has worked with some of the biggest names in metal and alternative music. He's produced and or mixed records for bands like Volbeat, Arch Enemy, Amaranthe, The Black Dahlia Murder, Heaven Shall Burn, Evergrey, Fleshgod Apocalypse, Primal Fear and many many more.
We're getting to pick Jacob's brain and talk about
among many other things.
Enjoy!
--
For links to everything we've mentioned in this episode, as well as full show notes go to: https://theselfrecordingband.com/204
--
If you have any questions, feedback, topic ideas or want to suggest a guest, email us at: podcast@theselfrecordingband.com
Hello and welcome to the Self-Recording Band podcast. I'm your host, Benedict Heijn. If you are new to the show, welcome. Thank you so much for joining us and checking out the show. If you are a radio listener, welcome back. We really appreciate you. This is available on YouTube, as well as all the common podcast apps, wherever you consume podcasts. So, yeah, check those different platforms out. And today I'm here again with my podcast co-host and friend, Malcolm Owen Flutt. Hello, how are you, Malcolm? Hey, Benny, I'm great man. How are you? I'm great too. Happy new year to you and all our listeners.
Speaker 2:We're back after a break. Yeah, yeah, it was a nice break. But like I'm so excited for this year, Me too it's going to be a big one.
Speaker 1:I can tell. Yeah, me too. Me too, it's very exciting. We signed up a bunch of new students for the Self-Recording Syndicate. We actually, for now, pause the registration so people can still apply and they don't have a wait list, but it will be a few weeks until we let new people in. I'm going to fly to the US soon to go to Nam show and then do a record over there, produce a record, which is also going to be very exciting. So, yeah, good news all around. I came back after this break to a huge pile of feedback requests and messages inside our coaching portal and also a bunch of new mixing projects to handle. So that's good news. But also, yeah, busy times. Yeah, I got some work to do Gosh exactly. So, yeah, it was a very nice break, but, yeah, fully excited, recharged and ready to attack all this. So how about you? Like, what's the start of your year is going to look like? Yeah, man.
Speaker 2:It's kind of similar. My YouTube channel's in full swing and I'm doing some stuff to kind of increase the output there, so that's like you've taken up more time than ever, got some cool mixing and mastering gigs right now as well, as well as the TV land. It's all kind of still happening and, unfortunately, even when you take a break, the rest of the world doesn't seem to take a break. So it's just like there's a backlog, which is why we are doing something a little different. Today's episode yeah exact, perfect segue.
Speaker 1:So what we're doing is because we have so much stuff to work on, and I will always prioritize you know, of course the students that I have in the coaching program, the artists that we work with in the studio. This is the most important part of my job, and, as much as I love the show and serving you, I want to do that first and foremost, but we never want to miss a single week. So we're here and still doing this, and so what we do now is we're going to reshare an episode that we already published a while ago, but we know for a fact that many of you haven't listened to it yet, and we think you should, because it's awesome and we have an amazing guest on it. It was one of the first sort of if not the first guest we had, but one of the first for sure, like the first big one, and he. That episode just deserves more plays and it's going to be really, really valuable for you, and so that's why we're resharing that, and for those of you who have listened to it, please listen again, because you know, there's the saying we need to be reminded more than we need to be taught, and this one is one that you can listen to over and over. I listened to it multiple times, although I recorded it. So that's that's how good it is, I think, and it's been a while. So maybe we weren't as good at podcasting as we are now or, like you know, but maybe some things are outdated in terms of, like, current events or whatever, but that doesn't matter. The content is good and the guest is amazing.
Speaker 1:And the guest that I'm talking about is Jacob Hansen. He is a metal producer, engineer who has worked on, like, yeah, so many really big, successful metal records. There's Walbeat is a band you might know that he's worked on and you know I don't know how many million streams they have and you know he's a Grammy nominated producer, mixer, and since we just had cool Kristen, cool equivalents, you know, on the podcast, maybe we have a few more metal people now in our audience who might appreciate this episode as well. So, yeah, long story short, jacob Hansen, we're going to publish that again now. Hopefully you check it out, and even if you're not into metal, there's so much to learn from this guy.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah. Jacob Hansen is one of my favorite. I guess producers, mixers and engineers just period Like his stuff sounds so huge, yet supernatural. He is like at the top of the game, so this is like a masterclass in guitars specifically. I feel like we talked about guitars a lot. It's so good at guitar work tracking it's wild.
Speaker 1:Totally. Yeah, we talked about guitars. We talked about mixing songs remotely. We talked about reamping Most common home studio mistakes and pitfalls guitar tuning, ever tuned bridges, workflow and efficiency, collaboration, best practices, amps and campers. And one interesting thing here on my outline. I don't remember what we were talking about, but it says the future of home recording. So maybe we there's a chance to see if we predict the things the right or the wrong way.
Speaker 1:So it's been a while Maybe there's some predictions that went totally off. Now Maybe we predicted stuff that actually happened. I don't know. It's going to be interesting. So, yeah, it's 2024. This episode was originally published almost three years ago, july 2021. And so this deserves a rerun, for sure, and it's great. And, either way, follow Jacob, not only just check him out, but also follow him on social and all his platforms, because, even though I don't even know if you've ever seen that Malcolm, but even just the snippets he's posting from the studio when he's creating his drum samples, for example, that he's been working on for a while now, when you hear, just sometimes, just these phone clips where, or these very rough clips from the studio, and it just sounds so insanely good, it still sounds so good, I know exactly what you're talking about.
Speaker 2:He's like oh, just working on something and it's just like literally a phone video and you're like, wow, that sounds incredible and it doesn't matter if he's like in the room and just films it or if he's filming it coming out of the speakers.
Speaker 1:it always sounds amazing. You can always tell like how great those drummers are first of all, and then how great the room sounds and the engineering and everything. So the teching of the drums is obviously immaculate.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, it's a masterclass, totally so, to a high standard.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so follow him on his socials as well. It's worth it. He really knows what he's doing. He's so detail oriented, you know, and like yeah, it's just, it's amazing. So I'm glad we get to share this again. And maybe one more thing before we get to this episode, and this is something that is worth mentioning we now have what is this? Number 204 or something? Episode 204, I think Something like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So I wonder you're now listening, like talking directly to you how many of those have you listened to? And then, what's the ratio like how much of it have you actually applied and took action on? Because I really think Mecklen and I have been talking about this I really think that the most valuable thing you could do is not listen to another piece of content or another episode or another new concept, but actually looking at what you've already consumed and then applying a bunch of these things instead of taking a new knowledge.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I'm guilty of that as well. I consume knowledge all the time and only implement a fraction of it. But I think you know, listen to this episode for sure, but then maybe also, you know, assess what you already know but haven't actually tried and implemented yet. And I think this will be. This could be a game changer for you.
Speaker 2:Yep, it absolutely would be, I'm sure, yeah, and if not this episode? So you don't do whatever we're talking about in this episode, you could just browse through you know our history of episodes and be like, oh right, that one. I thought that was interesting how they talked about recording acoustic guitars on this episode. I got to try that. You know, just take something you heard and then try doing it, apply it. You'll learn so much. Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally it's. It's incredible to think we'd found 200 plus episodes now, right, all kinds of topics. It's so, so cool. Just getting started, exactly Not planning to stop anytime soon. All right, now, enough of that. Check out the episode.
Speaker 1:Here is Jacob Hansen for you Enjoy. This is the self recording band podcast, the show where we help you make exciting records on your own wherever you are. Diy style, let's go. This is super exciting. Jacob is a musician and a Grammy Award nominated music producer and mixing and mastering engineer. He's worked with some of the biggest names in metal and alternative music. You're probably familiar with his work If you're listening to this type of music. He's worked with bands like Volbeat, primal Fear, the Black Dahlia, murder, flash, god Apocalypse Ever, gray Heaven Shall Burn and many, many more. So this is super exciting.
Speaker 1:We get to pick Jacob's brain today on all things recording. We talk, specifically, diy recording. Of course, we are talking about the challenges of working with bands who record themselves. We talk about guitar tone because, like, if you've heard Jacob's work, he's amazing at crafting Super exciting guitar tones. We talk about that and we have all, like, so many questions in our minds. I can't wait to get into this. I'm super excited and first of all, I want to thank you for taking the time. Jacob, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 3:Thank you and you're so welcome. Yeah, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:So I'm curious is it even correct that you are sometimes working with DIY bands, or is that very rare still these days for you?
Speaker 3:No for sure. I do a lot of very different well, both mixing jobs and also just producing just bits and pieces of a record. It doesn't have to be, or maybe they come here to do the drums and they continue somewhere else, maybe at home in a bedroom or whatever in an office, playing guitars or tracking bass and vocals. So there's a lot of different ways of doing this. Luckily, these days it's possible. I love that, and it's not only I mean. I do work with a lot of bigger bands, but I also take in smaller bands. As long as it's cool and I like the people and the music, I'm totally fine. It doesn't matter. It can be equally satisfying to do really DIY projects as well.
Speaker 3:So yeah it's all good.
Speaker 1:That's cool to hear? Is it like, how important is the quality of those recordings to you Like, let's say, the budget is okay and the people are cool, but you've heard the demos or the raw recordings and it's not really what you're used to working with when you produce yourself or when someone does it well. I imagine that with a portfolio like yours, you've got to be careful, like to have yeah, you've got to be careful that the results are at a certain level all the time, like you probably can't have an amateur sounding thing in between all the great sounding stuff you do. So is there? Has there been ever an occasion where you refuse to work on a record or a song, even though you've liked the people and the budget, what was fine, just because the quality was not there for some reason?
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, I don't recall anything where I went like, no, this is never going to work, but but I've, of course I've had, you know, I've received files that were like where I went oh shit, this is. You know, the guitars are so noisy or it's. There's something really wrong with this DI signal, or you know? Oh, maybe you forgot to change the bass strings, which is a classic and all these things.
Speaker 3:And it totally makes sense because I mean, I mean I've been doing this for so many years and I do this every day and these bands maybe do it. Maybe it's the first time and they've, you know, they have no experience whatsoever, just a little. Maybe they read a lot of weird things on the internet, like some parts true and some not so true, and they start working and which is it's cool. And I can kind of see myself in the beginning how I was, you know, just it was trial and error, fumbling about and just doing stuff and not knowing what I did and and I couldn't really you know how you can't really tell what's actually important, is it? I mean, is it important to edit the guitars really heavily and be like, oh yeah, I edited for, you know, five days and then, well, the strings were like half a year old, so what's the point of?
Speaker 1:the perfect editing.
Speaker 3:But but you know, you know what I mean. It's really it's a little tough. So I try to. Whenever I feel like there's something that could be an issue, I try to talk to the bands and if they want, we can, we can go on a like a Skype call or whatever FaceTime call and and, yeah, we can discuss it. But normally I just sent them a mail. You know, like, remember these things, and this is very, very important.
Speaker 3:And other times it's it's like it's maybe, well, we're recording drums, they're telling me, you know, and it's in our rehearsal room, and do you think these $100 mics are okay? And I'm like, yes, but it's not only about the mics, it's. You know how difficult it is to record a drum set, and I've been, you know, doing that for 30 years and I'm not even done with that. I'm experimenting and learning all the time. So it's, it's tough. It's not just something that you just jump right into. Well, you can, but it's gonna, there's gonna be a lot of things that you don't know, and then you'll yeah, there'll be some pitfalls and you'll do stupid things and spend tons of time on things that maybe wasn't so cool.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, but, but, but he also, yeah, you're asking me if I ever, you know, said hey, stop, it's stupid. But but I don't think so. I think we saved stuff. Or I've just, you know, called the band and said Well, there's something wrong, your guitars are so noisy. What's happening? And they'll, they'll be showing me. Oh, this is where the cable goes. And and all of a sudden I see, oh well, this old screen that you have there, or maybe the cable is, you know, near some powers or so you know, yeah, so we figured out at the end.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 3:So there's definitely guidance needed because, yeah, how should people know, right, as you said, like, and they started, yes, yeah, and and other times people are actually pretty good at it and and and you get I mean not surprised, but you're like, wow, okay, so this is very, very good, they don't need an external engineer and and it's just all fine, or you know. But but also a thing that I sometimes tell these bands is like maybe if you know some engineer in your area or there's somebody you can say, hey, can you come over? You know, we'll pay you for two hours and you can help us set this up, and and maybe there are some stuff that you want to tell us that we should not do. It's so well worth spent that that money and and I think it seems like some people are fine with with this and some are more like no, no, we can do everything ourselves is going to be right, and then maybe not learn the hard way.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I'm just starting to find that I'm having like a change of opinions little paradigm shift where drums, I think, are the hardest thing to engineer right.
Speaker 2:To get drums to sound just how you want them on the way in is really. It's like you said, it's a lifetime learning thing, will never stop and we'll always be chasing some new technique or some new sound in our head, right, but at the same time, the power of mixing drums, especially in hard drummers, has become very powerful. So I'm finding that, as long as, like, there's some good rooms and good overheads, or even just good overheads, I can really make a slamming drum sound in a mix. Sure happen if the plane's good, right.
Speaker 2:So what I'm starting to realize is that guitars are actually becoming the thing that I'm like. How do we fix this? This is like the most commonly screwed up thing for bands in a kind of repairable way, and it's either, like you said, noise like, just like outrageous noise, or it's guitar tuning, which is something that Benny and I just talk about at nonstop length on this podcast. Is is guitar tuning, and I've been trying to figure out a way to like communicate that, and it seems like some people can hear it and some people can't.
Speaker 2:So I'm wondering if you've encountered that and how you've tried to get around it in a situation where you're not able to be there, engineering and making sure that guitar is in tune, which is a lot of what we do as engineers.
Speaker 3:Yeah it's, it's rough. I mean, I've even yeah shit. I've had. I've even had bands where I went like, oh, you know what, you know what, what could be a step up from your last album. If you borrow or you go out and buy a guitar with ever tune and you play all the rhythm, you know the rhythm parts or the basic parts on that, and they'll be like, sure, that's such a cool thing. And then I get the files and it's still fucking out of and I'm like it's impossible, but, but it's, but it's something that I've also seen.
Speaker 3:I'm not saying people are stupid, but it is just. There's also a little bit of how you have to develop your, you have to develop your ear, of when is the guitar in tune, and that's a little Like. Of course there's a scientific way of telling well, this is in tune or it's not. But there's also a little bit of taste. You know, people will be like, yeah, yeah, this is really in tune. I'll be like no, or you know what I mean, you so. So sometimes it can be a little. I mean, even when I'm working with people in the studio and I'm like, no, that course not in tune, and they tune in tune, and they're like, oh yeah, and I'm like no, I feel like.
Speaker 3:You know the conductor in whiplash, you know the white, my tempo.
Speaker 3:And they're like yeah, yeah now, and I'm like, no, but you know, and it, this is the thing that how can you teach people that and and so? So I'm actually, you know, I'm so hoping that someday it'll work, that you can, you know, tune polyphonic material, because those rhythm guitars, if it's not just bang on, it's gonna suck all the way through the, the record and and, and that's gonna make everyone's life so hard. And, like you're saying, with drums, I've, I've, I've received stuff where you know where I went. This is not even drums, this is the loudest hi-hat in the world bleeding into everything. So I'm like, okay, but but there's, you know, that's a way of dealing with that.
Speaker 3:I can easily fix that. It's not a good starting point, obviously. It makes no sense and it takes me, you know, two, three days to fix that, which is like, why are you even? Why, yeah, but but like you're saying that that has been, I mean that there are ways to fix this and and and people will be like, how did you even, how did you do that? And you're like, well, that was actually pretty easy.
Speaker 3:Yeah but the tuning thing, tuning guitars, oh yeah, that that's a tough one. But but I mean All the bands that I work with or all the people that I meet here in the studio. For example, if they come here to record drums or or track vocals or something and we talk about their process, you know, or they have to go home and start tracking to to the drums we did here.
Speaker 3:I'm like Get yourself a guitar with ever tune and they're like no, but you know, it's weird when you can't bend and I'm like, but you have to, it's I, it's, it's still I'm. Well, yeah, there are people who can tune a guitar and it'll sound fantastic, but it's just, it's such a time saver, I can't stress that enough. It's and it's not for gent only or metalcore, I mean I have. I actually, you know, first time I tried it was I don't know Some years ago, maybe six, seven years ago, and I was like, okay, well, yeah, that's the best invention for guitars in 50 years. And I just like ordered, you know, a Telecaster, a seven string, a six string, and I just went on because, okay, so I.
Speaker 3:So I know I have those, you know types of guitars in my studio so we can just, if we need to overdub something, well, we pick up the telecaster and it's Bang on in tune and we just go and people love that and when they see it, how it really works in the In the studio, it's like, yeah, well, this you can't go back. I, I mean, I can't even myself if I track something. I'm like, no, I don't want to. He bothered playing a normal, real guitar. I just pick up the one with ever tune and I'm like, ah, this is so good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm at the point now where I can't even imagine buying a new guitar without one, without an effort, you know, it seems like the silliest use of my money ever.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly yeah, do you have a?
Speaker 2:bass with ever tune as well, because those are the thing now.
Speaker 1:And and bass tuning is Sometimes even worse than guitars, or yeah, like sometimes you think the guitars are out of tune, but it's actually the bass, or? Sometimes you think the vocals are weird and it's the bass or some like the bass is often the reason for Stuff sounding weird in the mix and like do you have an ever tune bass as well?
Speaker 3:I don't, but I wasn't sure that it was. I've know they've been talking about that, you know, for years, but I is it a thing it.
Speaker 2:Oh, I thought it was, but I wasn't aware it was a thing yet. I think it's only a prototype still.
Speaker 1:Ah, okay, sorry.
Speaker 2:I thought I thought they released it already.
Speaker 3:No, because it was something some guy told me that's a ton of years ago that they were like, yeah, yeah, they're gonna present it at NEM and then something. I know it didn't really.
Speaker 2:I don't know there was a prototype video, I think two years ago now. So like right, okay, have a physical prototype that we're working on. So it's yeah.
Speaker 3:But, but I mean bass is. I mean, the first thing I do when or at least you know my assistant he does it's just taking all bass tracks into Melodyne, hurtling and tuning up. Because I mean, if, like you're saying, if the, if the Fundamental notes of the whole mix is not in tune, you're so you're gonna struggle and and, and it's always like you know, you put it into Melodyne. It's like when you press tune, it's like it folds down, it's almost like sometimes a half or a semi note Sharp. You know bass players are tuning like Like plume, plume and then, yeah, let's try, they're like hitting the heart yeah hitting the strings so
Speaker 3:strong, there's like, but there are ways to fix that and it's that that's pretty easy. So I'm like you know, when tracking bass players in the studio, I'm, I'm just, I'm fine being just somewhere, um, but I normally just Actually tune it, you know, a little lower than it's supposed to, because when people start hitting it, if you know, goes up in or gets sharp, so and I just have an an eye on a tuner that's on all the time and and people are just Playing, but I know it's gonna go into Melodyne, so I'm, I'm not worried.
Speaker 1:As long as it's close, we're good.
Speaker 1:I. I wonder how much of that is it's just having the ear or like the taste, as you said, and how much of it develops and comes with experience. Because I'm pretty sure, as sensitive as I am right now, like these days, to tuning issues, I'm pretty sure if I would go back 10 years or so and listen to recordings I did, I'm sure I wouldn't like let those Go through these days like I. I'm pretty sure that I would that that these are out of tune now to me and I didn't notice 10 years ago maybe. So I'm I. I think part of it comes with experience and that's the the hard part, because that is something you just can't do anything about. If people just start Recording themselves and they don't have the experience, it's gonna be tough I think yeah, no, but you're totally right, it's, it's.
Speaker 3:it's the same thing when you listen back to some of your favorite records from 25 years ago, or I'm left.
Speaker 2:Oh, by the way, or 30 and you're like this was the best thing.
Speaker 3:I love this singer and you realize, oh fuck, this, it's so, it's so itchy. Yeah, that's terrible, but but on the other hand it's it's a great thing, because that means, oh, you learn something or your ears develop so you can just tell. You can tell things are out of time and out of yeah, out of tune, and it's just pitchy and it's like, oh shit, were they even rushing that much? I didn't even notice that or you know. But it's like you're saying it's.
Speaker 3:I don't know how you could actually, yeah, what can you do? I don't know if you could. If there's something you can do, maybe you can just Take a few hours with a person you trust that that can tell you oh no, this is not in tune, or at that, but it's, it's. It's also such a personal thing in some way. If you're a guitarist and you're like Now I've spent like 10 minutes tuning this one, perfect, and I start recording and it and it's not in tune, you know some people will hear it and and, but maybe this guy doesn't, so how, how's it even gonna?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we check. It is one of those things where Getting to work with a good engineer or producer that is on top of tuning is like the best way to learn. You kind of start slowly picking up what they're talking about as you're doing it and just being told to tune over and over again and and you know all the little tricks, like okay, tune that fret, you know and like to hold the chord, tune that kind of thing and then it starts to unlock, I think. But if you haven't had that opportunity, it's a hard thing to learn on your own.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that brings up. That brings up an interesting question, though, especially the thing you said about your favorite records from like 25 years ago. So, um, because where is the where you draw the line between it's too sloppy or too pitchy, not in tune, not in time, and when is it like Just right, and when is it like maybe too perfect, because some of those old records are perfect the way they are, even though they are not in tune and not in time, and like. People might argue about this some, some like it, some don't. But, um, where do you, personally, draw the line like what is acceptable and in which cases is it even? Is it Okay that it's not perfect, and in which cases does it have to be perfect or does it ever have to be perfect?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that that's also a little like Like, what is your taste? I mean what? When do you personally feel it's perfect? I mean, for me, I, I there was one person, I don't know who. I listened to some some podcast with some engineer who said that he wanted his assistant to edit the drums. Um, how was it again? Now I forgot maybe about well, wait a second. Yeah, I mean superhuman, but, but not Unhuman. You know, it had to be really really good, but still sound like a human being. So and and I feel like that's, even though it doesn't Really make much sense, or or well, yeah, it's still a taste thing, but I think that this is for me, it has to sound like this is the guitarist on his very best day. It's like it's maybe I mean, it's not to the grid perfect, or like that, because that sounds stupid. I've even mixed albums where people were editing, you know, just to the grid, and the guitars were like and it's just it stops being music.
Speaker 3:It's just like playing nintendo, you know, yeah, and and it's. It's that that doesn't work for me, and and Maybe it's also something that is also different from genre to genre. I mean, some some more Dirty retro stuff could be much more loose and kind of Wopley or hippie ish, whereas if you do some modern Metalcore mix where you have to compete with other you know Really really good players or, yeah, well, stuff that's been Edited pretty hard, then you have to maybe be a little more, yeah, hard on the editing. But but, yeah, I think I kind of decide when I I mean, if it's me producing, I kind of decide already when, when, when I have a feeling of what, what, what is the band that I'm working with, what is, what are we doing? I mean, is it what kind of style, and and what would fit here, and and and and I, I have this Not a rule, but, but you know, when I have my assistants Editing drums for me, when I'm not doing it myself, I love it, by the way, I love to edit drums.
Speaker 3:It's a strange thing, but but I can't always justify the time, you know, because it, yeah, it does take time, but I kind of you know With I'm in pro tool, so so it's called beat detective in pro tool. It's called beat detective in pro tools, right? And when I edit drums I'm I'm never over 65 or 60% somewhere around that. I mean, I'm never 100 because it's I'm like why would it ever be 100? But that might be fine for somebody else or that might work for some other mixer, I don't know.
Speaker 1:Let's maybe explain real quick for people who don't use Pro Tools what that means, because 100 in beat detective means that it's perfectly on the grid, right? I'm like 60%, or it's like a percentage. And like 60% is it moves it closer to the grid, but it stops at a certain point, right? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it will actually. I mean, if you have a drum beat going and the drummer was a little sloppy or there was something that was a little wobbly and you didn't have the you know the relaxed feeling of a drummer that knew what he was doing and you wanna edit that little part, you know it will still keep some of the feeling of the original take I think so at least and it won't just, you know, tighten it up 100%, and I think that's a well. To me, I think that's a good thing because, even though when you're listening to drums and solo, you want it, you feel like, oh, this should actually be really, really perfect. But in the context of the whole band, it, as soon as it's just a little tightened up, it starts to feel more like a cohesive band or a band that actually knows what each are doing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Just the goal, yeah.
Speaker 1:Let's maybe move away from the editing, the editing part a bit, because I mean that is the most common issue and problem. That's why I wanted to talk about it and that's the, as Malcolm said before on the show, that's the one thing we still kind of haven't accomplished yet that we've managed. We have accomplished a lot with this podcast, like the results we get from people and the feedback we get is pretty amazing and some people really improve their recordings. But the tuning thing and some of the editing performance thing this is still something we don't know how to.
Speaker 2:It's still hit or miss. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, Like there's some takeaways from this episode. There's for our listeners.
Speaker 3:We've been talking for like 24 minutes right now and we've been talking probably 22 of those minutes about tuning, so obviously this is important, like just think about that it's really important and, like you're saying there, I don't see a solution just right around the corner. And it's also a little where you go like does it, I mean, seriously, does it have to be a like a software solution, or could people not really learn how to tune a guitar?
Speaker 1:But I know it takes time. Yeah, it's not. There's so many things involved Like there's so many things involved as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and it's not so fun. It's more fun to just shred away.
Speaker 2:Yeah exactly, I don't know.
Speaker 3:It will.
Speaker 2:hopefully we'll get there yeah we'll get there, but other things, I think that's yeah, exactly. The other takeaway was just get an ever tune. It's such a good investment.
Speaker 1:It is so when it comes to the actual sounds, I heard you talk about that on another podcast where I got the impression that you and I might be totally wrong.
Speaker 1:I just want to ask that you sort of tell people to I don't know how to say record, maybe, save signals or stay on the safe side, like record clean stuff, don't risk too much when they record, because you can't undo things, but you can always add things. So maybe, if people don't have the experience that, it's easier for you to just get clean recordings that you can then turn into whatever they want, versus having something that is heavily processed or where, like, really bold decisions have been made that might sound interesting at first but tie your hands a little bit later in the process. So I'm just wondering what your opinion is on that. Am I correct that you would recommend to stay on the safe side a little bit, because Malcolm and I often preach that people should actually commit and be in where the producer had and, like, make bold decisions so that they can come up with unique and exciting art. But yeah, everybody's different here, I guess.
Speaker 1:So what's your opinion here.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but I get what you're saying and I think what I was trying to avoid is that people do something and commit to something that was actually a major mistake. And that's the thing where you're. I mean, if it's your first time tracking guitars and you set up an amp and a cab and you put on seven microphones and you're like let's go, this is gonna be the greatest guitar sound ever.
Speaker 3:And you'll be like, yeah, it does sound great. And when I get it I can just hear face issues everywhere. It's just that. And if I'm not asking them to at least track a DI signal, it's like, oh, they just spent so many hours recording this and now we have to throw it away because it's useless and that's just sad. So I'd rather have people be a little bit. I mean, it's cool when they experiment and sometimes there's something they might have a cool guitar pedal or it could be whatever you know, which is a good thing.
Speaker 3:But there are just some basic things that have to be right from the start.
Speaker 3:So getting a really good DI signal and then you can always use all kinds of amps still and track the amp signal, or at least let me hear what was the thought behind that special sound. If I hear it and I'm like this is so cool, let's use it, it's all good. But if I'm like the idea is good, but it's just not done right or it doesn't fit into the mix or there's maybe something that doesn't really work within the mix context, then I can listen to their idea and just try to replicate it with my amps or with my or whatever, and that I guess that goes for everything. It's not like I'm asking people to not experiment, but it's more like, yeah, having the chance to go back to just a clean DI signal and reamp. Also, a thing that I've realized is happening quite often which I'm a little concerned about is that people obviously track a lot with Kempers, which is great, but they fall completely in love with that Kemper sound, even though it's rubbish.
Speaker 2:And they're like can we use?
Speaker 3:this for the album and I'm like yeah, yes, and no, no. You know what I mean. It's like you get so used to hearing the stuff that maybe it's the only thing you're listening to for three weeks when you're tracking guitars for your album and then you can't imagine this is the sound I love. This. This is so great, it's perfect. It sounds just like blah, blah, blah, so on, so on, and when I listen to I only hear cardboard boxes, like I'm like no, it's just not. I mean it sounds a little arrogant, but yeah, but that's the thing that I see happening often. I'm not saying that I don't wanna use people's guitar sound, but I'm just saying that this is maybe something that you dialed in. It maybe took five minutes dialing in on Kemper and that's oh, I like this sound, let's use this for the album.
Speaker 3:And I would maybe spend two, three hours on choosing the right amp or working with this and tracking two amps at the same time, sending it to the band and saying do you like this or should we? Do you feel like we should go with the 5150? Or are we Buck? No, where are we? You know, plus my, I mean yeah. Actually, if you think about it. You would also be like but why are they not interested? In my experience with amps and mic'ing up guitar caps, that could be an idea to hear what I at least can do and AB to what their Kemper sounds. But that's also a little bit of a different talk, because then we go into something where they they feel very strong about something. That's fine and I can live with it. And if they insist on the Kemper sound, I'm yeah. Sometimes I'm like, yeah, right, let's do it. It's their album, it's their record, I'm fine.
Speaker 1:This is probably the most ruthless Kemper reaction I've ever heard and I thank you and thank you so much for that, because Malcolm and I have talked about this quite a bit and Malcolm loves his Kemper and I had a Kemper twice and sold it twice because, like I bought one and then I sold it and I got the one with the power amp because I thought if I can like, at least use my caps, but still, like I sold the second one too.
Speaker 2:So yeah, but it's like some people swear by it, so I'm not saying it's not working, they can do the work, but like I've heard, jacob, I've heard your tones and like they are what I chased, like they're what I'm always after and also yeah, yeah yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 3:Sorry, no, but what I'm, what I feel like I hear when I hear Kemper sounds and I've talked to people who love Kemper and it's not to. I think that you know that thing. The Kemper is such a fantastic tool. It makes so much sense. I mean it's cool for tracking at home, but in life situations for me it's even, it's insane. It's so good and it makes so much sense.
Speaker 3:I would never, ever personally bring out a tube head on tour or play live. And when I sit here, talk to bands you know who are like, yeah, we're thinking about what to do and I'm a little bit tired of my big stack and I'm like what this is 2021. And we're and why are you even dragging around a huge head? And you can control this and you can just switch the blah, blah, blah and I love it. It's not like I want to slack Kemper, but, that said, I think when you make a really nice guitar tone with whatever amp mic'd up with good cabinets, good preamps and good mics and things, and you AB, it's like Kemper just starts to sound plastic and it sounds more 2D to me than there's no depth. In some way you kind of have a guitar soundlet that's right in your face and you don't. It sounds a little weird, but it feels like you can't really hear the air moving. It's just, I mean, for people who don't have the experience of miking up guitar amps and maybe they don't even have the room or the mic. So then it's a fantastic thing and it's you know, it's yeah, it's good.
Speaker 3:But comparing, it's like I feel a little bit like you know the memes where people are like this guy is standing with a pot and he goes like it just sounds just like the real thing, it's fantastic. It was like that. I remember 2001,. I worked with, you know, some people. They were like everything is pot on this album. It sounds fucking amazing and I'm like who would do that now? Yeah, it's just right and I'm there's a little bit of truth to that that this, you know, kemper, is the pot of the yeah of our time right now, but of course it's so much better, but still it's like maybe in some years we'll be like what is this weird plastic tone? Maybe not, maybe it's fine.
Speaker 1:I think a lot of it is also the we've talked about that as well is like it's the IRs, because I actually have heard even pot tones recently where people just used good IRs with an old pot or plugging or whatever, and I was very surprised how much better it sounded just with a great cab or a great IR, and the same. I found the same to be true with the Kemper. I just can't stand the built in cab sounds, but if you switch the, if you turn the cab off and use a good IR, it's much better. So there's that. But yeah, I mean, it's a matter of taste, but I kind of agree and I think it's interesting because when we started this podcast today, you were in the process of reamping something and we could hear the loud amps in the background.
Speaker 1:So I assume you still to this day, like, use your real amps and not rely on plugins and stuff. Because, like, the Kemper is one thing, but there are really really awesome plugins that, in my opinion, often sound better than the Kemper. They are more like the one trick ponies, but if you need exactly what they do, there are excellent solutions out there these days. So I'm wondering, I'm wondering in which cases you still prefer your amps, or if there are records where you use a plugin and you really believe it's the best choice.
Speaker 3:I think. I think it's maybe two, three records where I've mixed ever where it's not real amps it sounds weird, but it is.
Speaker 3:And the funny thing is that I'm very often thinking when I build a mix and I start and I put in the guitars, I'm very often trying an amp sim and in the beginning I'm like, yeah, this is pretty cool, this might work, and maybe this is the album where it's gonna be this and that amp sim. And then I get a little further into it and I'm like, no, this is so thin, what the hell. And there's also something because I love stacking guitars or it's sometimes, or very often, I ask people to record for rhythm guitars because I love the fatness. So I use different amps for maybe even every track, and just the stacking of that just makes it huge. And as soon as I start stacking with amp sims, I feel like it just gets into face hell, because there's something strange about it. It's not two, even two very different performances will sound kind of similar in an amp sim and it's weird to me. I don't know why.
Speaker 3:So, even though they're great sounding and I'm also constantly buying new amp sims whenever they hit the market, I'm like yeah and press five because maybe this is the one. And our people are always like yeah, now this new one is out. This one feels just like the real thing and I jump on it and buy it. But I haven't yet, you know, it hasn't ended on an album. Maybe as overdub guitars and that's fine, or for solos. It's cool and clean and crunch. It's just so much faster so than me dialing in a good crunch sound that's, or a clean sound. That's a little bit of a. That's actually harder than making a high gain sound.
Speaker 1:I think it's interesting to say that. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Because there's so many variables. You know, when it starts to get into that territory, are we? You know what kind of? What is a clean sound? That's a lot of different things. Well, to me it is, but yeah.
Speaker 2:The thing for me about ampsims and Kemper and quad cortex, now amp fax or X-Fex, all those different ones is, I think, a huge advantage for me is like just the time saving aspect of it Like where I've got one day to track way too many guitars with a band.
Speaker 2:It's like we're going to be able to get something that sounds awesome within the first 15 minutes and then be tracking and then you know, as long as we have that DI, like you've recommended here, we were not powerless in changing that, but at least we have something awesome to get us going and do a really good job with. I've got a story. I recently did a guitar session. We had a 5150 sitting beside me so I had that going up to a cab. I had one of those torpedo captures going as well, so we were grabbing the head and running an IR loader. I then had a 5150 on my Kemper going and I had the Neural Nolli plug-in with their 5150 up and we started at the amp and we ended up burning through them all and landing on the Nolli plug-in and again we were moving quick.
Speaker 2:you know really quick so it was like turn it all on. Which one do we like? And it was like, okay, the $150 options, what we're running with today.
Speaker 3:But that's cool and it's fantastic and that's also what I'm actually. Sometimes I get so frustrated that I have to spend time on reamping. I'm like, but you know, imagine if I could just, you know, put on that plug and just factory default and then just go or whatever you know, or that would be amazing. But I feel like it's not really there yet.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, your results really do speak for themselves.
Speaker 3:I think your guitars are just massive, but I also hear some you know some really cool mixes where I'm 100%. It's amp sims, so it's not like it can't be done, it's just me. I don't know, I'm stuck in the 80s. Whatever gets you there, though, right.
Speaker 2:It's like whatever gets, the result is fine. Yeah, that brings me to a question for you. Is reamping part of your mixing process? Like, is that just something that you consider to be part of mixing, or is it Okay? Yeah, yeah, it is.
Speaker 3:Sometimes people ask me or you know, do you charge X or? But it's just a part of the price and I Making a process. Yeah, yeah and it's easy. I can just set up a session and just my studio is next to my home and I can just when I leave for the day, I can just press record and it'll of course, when I have to change amps I gotta go out and press the switch and change the head for the next guitar or whatever. But I can just make a session so I can reamp during the night and that's, it's ready for the next day. We're good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean that all I think what's really interesting about this whole conversation is that if people wonder whether it's worth hiring a mix engineer or not these days because many people think they or want to mix themselves as well, it's that doesn't stop at the recording and everything you just said. The amount of care and time and effort you put into making it like the best it can be is, I mean, that clearly shows the value in part of the value that's in hiring a mixing engineer. That really is something you just can't do yourselves and that alone should be, I think, a reason enough to just try it and work with someone really experienced, because you just don't do that at home, you just you don't have to experience, you don't have the gear, you don't, you're not as objective anymore, you cannot. You just simply cannot put as much effort and care into it as someone like Jacob can.
Speaker 1:And I think Everything you just said really shows me how much better off most people are hiring a mix engineer versus mixing themselves if they are not as experienced. And I'm wondering what your opinion is there, because some people can mix pretty well, but I believe that unless you work on a lot of different things, like. If you're only mixing your own band and that's all you ever did and you are lacking the experience, I think it's going to be very, very hard to ever beat a professional mix by someone like you. So I don't know, have you ever heard a mix that abandoned themselves where it was actually really great and sounded like a?
Speaker 3:competitive record. Yeah, that's a good question. Sometimes, yeah, it's hard to say. And it's also, I mean, first of all, I think it's always a budget question. I mean, it's always like people approach me and go like okay, so what? You know what's a? How much is a full production? And when I tell them the price they maybe can afford one day no, not that I'm extremely expensive, but you know what I mean they're not. I mean it doesn't really make any sense for them to do it. So they have to figure out alternatives and what's the best way. And I mean I would never recommend a band, you know, starting to mix their own stuff. Well, unless they had a lot of experience with that.
Speaker 3:And some people do get started and, you know, or end with a mix that they kind of like and they send it to me for mastering only because that was what they could afford, which is also fine. But then I sit there sometimes with so, you know, with a mix that has so many obvious, you know flaws or problems where I'm like, ah, this is all too bad. Well, this, so so, and that that's where I go like okay, so let's fix some, some issues here. I mean, if I'm supposed to be a mastering engineer and I'm suddenly a mixed consultant you know, remote mixed consultant or something happens off. But yeah, so it's also that's. That's rough, and sometimes we land on a middle ground where I get stems and I can fix some things and you know I work on the. Yeah, can you give me kicks now so I can at least?
Speaker 1:yeah, you know how it is, yeah that is also dangerous, though, because the stem mastering sometimes. Sometimes people have the expectation of getting a mix, but they just send stems because it's cheaper, so like they will hire you for stem mastering, but they actually expect a mix, at least in my experience. Sometimes that's the case. So if it's to fix a master, then it's totally fine. It's a great option. But if it's just trying to get a cheaper mix, it's sometimes a little difficult, yeah, and and and.
Speaker 3:Very often I see myself, you know, going way, way into mixing territory, even with a stem mastering, because I, I want this to be good, it's, it's, it's just, I can't let this go, I just can't. And sometimes it's just, yeah, I don't know it, it it is a little crazy and and that's where I feel like sometimes you know, you, I maybe I talk to the band and I'm like so you know, you know how much time have you spent on the mix? And they'll be, you know, I think you know two, three months or so.
Speaker 3:Maybe not every day but you know what I mean. So I'm like your time is so poorly spent, yeah, actually, but I've, of course, I get it because you also want to learn and maybe you can do better next time. And and I was probably the same when I started that you know, I just took the time to learn stuff and maybe it wasn't good in the beginning and maybe, if I send it to a mastering engineer who would be like, oh my God, this sucks, it's on so many levels, but how? I mean, you have to learn it at some point. But you're right, the important thing is to where are you spending your time and money, the you know the best way, and and that's where I think it's very good to, at least, I mean, or for me, just send me a mail and be like OK, this is what we're thinking and this is what we have, this is our budget, and how can you, can you help us, you know, get the most out of the money, and I would guide them to do, you know, many, maybe weird things, maybe sometimes I'm like you know, a drummer is like, yeah, yeah, but we have the rehearsal room and I can borrow this suitcase of microphones.
Speaker 2:That is you know, and I'm like oh, my God, this is.
Speaker 3:I can just feel where this is going. And then I'm like, but listen, even though it's not what you want to hear. But the best thing was to go on a music store website, buy a decent electronic kit, record everything with you know, superior Drummer, you know, give me the MIDI signals and let me yeah, I can even, you know, maybe even help them edit or quantize and I can just, you know, put in the sounds that I like and that I know will fit within this mix and this will give them in the shortest amount of time. So, you know, amazing quality and and it will be really cheap and they can, you know, they can easily punch in its MIDI you know what I mean.
Speaker 3:There are, so that that's actually it's, it's it's. I mean, it's no fun, because drummers are like, yeah, it's, it's fun to hit on, you know, real heads and I know, I know what it, how it, how it is. But but it's just, you don't have the money yet, but let's do it this time and, you know, let's do it like that by a, an E kit rented or borrowed from a friend or whatever, and make the drums like that and even I mean even even symbols are sounding so good. Now it's it's.
Speaker 3:It's much better to use sample symbols that are sampled really well than trying to record it with two 57s you know and have no experience at all, or maybe choose the wrong ones, because that's also a thing that that I would do in a drummer situation. You know, in my studio we would be discussing symbols and he would be like testing this crash, and I would be no, and he will. Now that sounds weird for this part, and it's all these small things. So, yeah, so I know that the bands are so eager to do it like the real thing, but but maybe it's not the you know the smartest way. So I encourage everyone to you know, either hit me up or just someone who can tell them what is the best way and cheapest way to get you know, to get to a result that actually can compete with everything else that's out there, but for a fraction of the price and it's. It's actually. It's not hard. It's not that hard if you just do the right thing from the beginning. Cool, thank you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. And again, the amount of care and attention to detail you can just tell from what you were just saying. Like, I think many people don't even realize that you can or you should shoot out samples or maybe change symbols for different parts or songs, like I think that's, some bands don't even realize that that this is a thing and you should be doing that. So this is where, again, where your expertise comes in and even if you're not producing it, you can still guide them through the process and help them with those things Exactly.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Now, what do you see the future of home recording? Go, then, because all of that, I mean, there are all these, these options these days and all these great ways to solve these problems, which is great and it enables and empowers so many people to make great records. But at the same time, a lot of people are afraid that this is that music is sort of maybe losing some things, some of the vibe and character, because everybody uses e-kits and ampsims and stuff and maybe they hire you and you can make turn that into something really exciting. But still, are you also like worried that it's it's going to take away from the soul or whatever from the music is the future? What do you envision the future of music and home recording like with all that development?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I don't know, to me it's not a thing that I worry about. I'm not the type I think that that that that is like, oh, it's killing music and too much stuff is coming out, and I'm not like. I just I actually love that these days you can buy a laptop and an interface and you can just go start recording and make your own albums and even the the way that the music business work these days, where you can make an album and just upload it and here it is, you know, to the rest of the world, without any gatekeeper who will be sitting there and saying, no, this is nothing for no, the market won't, you know.
Speaker 2:I love that. It's totally agree.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's a great thing and sure, there will maybe be a little bit of it's always, there will always be a little bit of preset generation music right, where everybody is like, oh, so what's the preset for the? Oh, you know, and they press that button and they just go with it. But but still, it might be cool music just with the presets. So so, I'm not, I mean just more power to people that that can be creative at home and and wherever it's, it's fantastic. I love the fact that that it's it's so easy now and that's that's also what I'm.
Speaker 3:You know, when bands are approaching me and going like, yeah, we need to do this record and how are we doing that? I even had a, you know, like a band calling me last week about a production and and they're like they don't, you know, they don't have the time to go into the studio, you know, with small kids and families and jobs and things, and the budget is maybe not as it was once and I'm like, well, I mean, why don't you just record it yourself? It's, it's really not. It's not like I want to talk everybody into coming to my studio.
Speaker 3:Of course, that's the that would be in a perfect world. Yeah, we should all be doing that and I would, you know, guide and help and do the best that I can. But but I also like that I can just tell people no, no, it's fine, just do it at home, and they'll be like but vocals and it's, I mean it's, it's not rocket science. I mean send me a picture of how you're standing in front of the mic and or then send me a test signal and I can tell you right away. And if you're even, I mean I even I think I said that in some other podcasts, but but I even have a bunch of, you know, preamps and compressors lying around.
Speaker 3:So when people are like, yeah, yeah we're maybe tracking at home for this album, and I'm not really sure. And I'm like, yeah, I'll send you my compressor and my EQ and my pream. You can just borrow it until you're done. It's fine, awesome.
Speaker 3:That's very, very cool. Yeah, and and it's. I mean, it's, it's such an easy thing to do for me and I can even, you know I can dial it in. They can just. You know, we can just talk about how do you let me see the needle, how is it? Yeah, it's fine, you know great, because I know that I'll get a signal that I, you know I'll I'll like because it's, it's got, some of my well, some of my sound is already there and I, maybe I even, you know, borrow people a mic or I tell them go out and buy a second hand, whatever, right, you, 87 or something, and, and and I think that that's that's such a cool thing to be able to do, and and and.
Speaker 3:Just the fact that more and more bands are doing this makes me happy, because there's, of course, it's great when they come here and it's cool to it. I mean, I lose a little bit of the social interaction, of course, and yeah, that's a little bit of a drawback, but but I'm totally fine with people sending me stuff, as long as it's done well, and I think it's these days it's so easy to do well. Interfaces are cheap, it's. You can buy a cheap laptop, and imagine if you take a studio budget and and you're not spending it on the studio, or you have a little bit of a budget, say like 2000 euros or maybe a little more, and you just spend it on a few select pieces of gear or rent something you know. Imagine what you actually can do.
Speaker 3:Yeah you know yeah so yeah, I agree. I'm just happy that that everything is just so much easier for self recording bands. And what is even better is a podcast like this. If people would stop reading weird things and yeah, it's yeah. Well, yeah, but that's maybe how it is. And yeah, because I hear some crazy things sometimes that people think they have to do.
Speaker 2:The microphones on a guitar amp. But when you said that I was like yeah, that's the one.
Speaker 3:That's the one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, more mics is better, right, yeah, yeah, of course, and face hill will arise.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean, sometimes the advice is not even bad, it's just for wrong for the type of person who reads it. Like, sometimes the advice could be good for for you or me or Malcolm, but if someone records for the first time, they might be completely overwhelmed with it and use it the completely wrong way. And so there's that. And like the internet, yeah, of course it's completely unfiltered and whatever you stumble across, you can you can only hope that it's the right information for your situation.
Speaker 3:So yeah, yeah, and a lot of myths from maybe from older days of recording where you have to do it like this and never, never, ever, blah, blah, blah and stuff which is maybe some of it is the truth and some is just. No, you don't do that anymore, but it's yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh, you see advice from people who are at a level that is nowhere near what the most people are, and they are speaking from a situation where they get very well prepared and excellent recorded tracks, which is a completely different situation. So if people seek mixing advice, for example, and they watch some, some A list mixer do their thing, those source tracks are probably not the same type of track that you are get to work with in the beginning and stuff like that.
Speaker 3:You know, some of the things might just not be applicable or you might have to solve a lot more problems than they have, and yeah, yeah, you're totally right and in some weird way I kind of like that I have been a part of solving so many stupid problems for a long long time.
Speaker 3:I can really remember when I was recording drums for, yeah, I don't know, maybe 10 years where I was like my drums sound so bad all the time and I was fighting and fighting to get it better and better. And then I had to do a cool German band actually, and they came in with, you know, a fantastic drummer and he, you know it was new hits and everything was in tune and he knew his kid and I was like, holy shit, this sounds so good. I realized that I've actually been fighting and doing, you know, learning how to optimize really poorly sounding kids. I really it never dawned on me that you should have new hits. I didn't think about that. I wasn't.
Speaker 3:You know. People came in with a drum kit and I was like sure, I'll put on my and I don't know why. You know how it is. You kind of yeah in the beginning. We all did that, yeah. But what I'm also saying is that if this guy came in as the first one I recorded, I wouldn't have learned all the tricks how to get you know poor drummer sounding better than they really are. And then when a good drummer comes in, it sounds fantastic, yeah.
Speaker 1:Hopefully.
Speaker 3:You know. So it's actually great to be able to learn all these tricks how to fix, you know, poorly recorded whatever, or just trying to make something out of a mess, instead of just going well, I can't do anything, so I'll just pull the faders up and this is how it sounds. Yeah, you know, I, yeah, so so I even though I want people to, you know, be better at recording themselves and, of course, make sense, but I think it's a good way, as a mixer, to learn and experiment and get really good at turning shit into gold. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:I couldn't agree more. Some of my favorite mixes this year have been self-accorded tracks that have been sent to me, and it forces me to do things differently, just like oh, I don't have the wall of guitars to do my usual thing to. I have to make it sound big a different way. And that's led to some really cool discoveries for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I also think it's. You are the type of person, jacob, where I find it so impressive that, at the level you are, you still just continuously keep learning and studying and trying new things. And you it seems like, yeah, it's impressive, because you could think you just don't have to do that anymore, because you know how to do everything properly, but you still keep educating yourself. You still seem like someone who tries to experiment, try new things, and you are not 100 percent. You feel like you're still not 100 percent there yet with everything you do, probably, and that is something that is also really remarkable, and I think that people should pay attention to that, because the best of the best are that type of person usually, and they just constantly try to solve these problems and try to figure out new ways to do this and never stop learning.
Speaker 3:So yeah, yeah, I agree. I think it's important that there should always be this. I mean, in fact, it should be like every time you Well, at least in my head every time you end the record, you'll be like now I know what to do on the next one. You know, yeah, this one is cool, but yeah, now you know, because you have to. I feel like you have to learn constantly and I'm trying, even though I've been doing this for many, many years.
Speaker 3:I'm trying to follow new trends or see, you know, okay, so how's this guy actually doing this? Or just constantly figuring out, you know, is there something I could do better, you know, with this sound or this type? Or maybe, oh, should I, you know, obsessing over drums and maybe this way of tuning is cooler, or you know, it's important, it's really important to be constantly learning, also as a band or a musician. I would say that if you kind of feel like I'm fine on my level now, you're like, ooh, a little bit of, but I mean, I even heard this. I don't know if it's true, but I heard this story where, I don't know if you know, jeff Loomis is a fantastic guitarist who's an arty enemy now, and he was at a certain point, I heard that he was taking lessons, which is like yeah, and that's just.
Speaker 3:I mean yeah, he's like oh, look at me, I'm the world's best guitarist in the middle and I need lessons. You know, this makes so much sense. So, yeah, you just can't stop. You know learning new tricks and things. It's very important yeah, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1:Any particular success stories that you remember where because, malcolm, you said some of your favorite records that you've worked on in the last couple of months? Where self-recorded? Do you, jacob, have any? Or remember any particular sessions records that you're really proud of where the band did a lot themselves, something that turned out really, really awesome?
Speaker 3:I can't even remember, but actually these days there are much more self-recorded mixes that I do than you know, produced where everything is done by me actually. So it's more or less all of them. Okay, cool, yeah, it's very it's kind of rare that people are doing a full album with me nowadays, because there can be so many reasons for that. So, yeah, there's a lot of bands who are actually good at recording stuff themselves and I can't really. I don't know if there's any favorite, but there are so many.
Speaker 2:No, I don't have to play favorites.
Speaker 3:No, but what I mean is that when people for example, if people mention Evergrey, which I've done a lot of albums they record, you know, they record at a studio. They have an engineer help them set up, jacob Hermann, for example, at Top Floor in Gothenburg, and he sets up stuff and they just do everything else themselves and they're good at it, it's very well done. And then Tom Englund, the singer, goes home and he records his vocals in his own home studio and everything is just, you know, meticulously made and everything is just very nice. So it's just a dream for him as a mixer to get these tracks and it's just, you know, everything's so well done and nothing is out of tune. No, but what I mean is it actually it's, it's, it's fantastic that people actually so good at it when it's not their everyday job. They're doing this, you know, every second year, maybe for two, three weeks. So so there's hope.
Speaker 1:Okay, malcolm, anything you want to want to add to this, because I have so many questions in mind, I think I would. I could go on for hours, but, like, is there anything that's in your mind?
Speaker 2:I mean, yeah, I mean I'm sure I could keep you all day, Jacob, but and again, thank you so much for coming on.
Speaker 3:It's just totally amazing, I'm having fun. Yeah, thanks for messing with me.
Speaker 2:Like, honestly, some of those ever great records are just like my favorite guitar tones ever. Oh, thanks so it's amazing here and that they're so hands on with their own stuff. That's cool. I got to ask actually ever tune, or yeah, ever tunes involved in their things? I don't think so. Actually that's so remarkably in tune.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they are, yeah, but they're just. They're fantastic players, all of them. Oh yeah, and they, they've been around forever and I think they've just gotten good at recording themselves. It's the drummer, jonas, who is really in charge of the recordings and he's good at this stuff, so he knows when it's not in tune, or yeah.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I do have one more nerdy question for you. Just, you mentioned that you like quad guitars a lot, where you have four rhythms, right? Yeah, I guess you're doing two left to right. Do you like it to be the same guitar for intonation stuff or do you like the guitar to be swapped out between those takes?
Speaker 3:I mean I very often use the same guitar. Actually it doesn't have to be another one, it's cool if it works. But you know, in, let's say, before ever tune, it was kind of impossible. I thought it was really hard to have two guitars. I mean, if you wanted to track two guitars with this type of guitar and then two with the other ones, they would be out of intonation all the time and you would be like fighting and I would sometimes live with it.
Speaker 3:But I wasn't a fan of it. So I would always more or less try to have at least the same guitar, and sometimes even the same guitar is playing all four to get everything pretty well locked in. But with ever tune it's. I mean you can almost pick up any guitar and just dub it with different ones, and I like the way that the wall of sound gets even more thick or whatever, or wherever you want to go with adding a different guitar as your third and fourth guitar. So sometimes I would even say you know, let's do two with a really heavy humbucker, maybe active, whatever sound, and then dub it with a telecaster, you know, or P90 pickup or something that sounds much more transparent in some way and it's not humbucker Like I like that as well.
Speaker 3:So yeah two different guitars are cool, but the main thing is the tuning. If it's not in tune or it doesn't intonate, then it's problematic. It'll be chorus.
Speaker 1:Hell, you said something interesting here, and that is like single coils, single coil pickups and metal. That is something many people don't even try or think about, and I think it can work really well. Especially the P90 is a great pickup, and so I was wondering is that often the case? Is it only for doubles or quad tracking, or do you enjoy tracking with, like, say, stock telecaster, for example?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I do it a lot. It's actually something I feel like is a little bit of a no-go for many bands, if I say, okay, I have an idea, and they're like, eh, no, you're so missing out, and I think I do that a lot. When I produce stuff, I'm very often like, oh, let's play this riff on this. Or if it has a split, the guitar, we can have this single coil. Really, you know 20 sound on top of it and maybe play that riff on the.
Speaker 3:It's so cool and people are like, no, no, I never, you know, sometimes it's always. It can be a little bit of a fight to get people understanding how cool it actually is to dub stuff with different types of pickups and different types of guitars and even if it gets a little crazy, you know, even different tunings and different voicings, which is very much. That gets a little complicated at times, and also more for chords stuff than riffing. But riffs are. I mean, I've tried, you know, many times, almost dopping a full album with a telecaster, all the riffing and it's so cool.
Speaker 3:And the guy that I introduced it to at that time he was like he was not really happy about it in the first place, but then when he heard that how, what it gives to the whole sound, it's just, it's amazing, I love it. So I think that is something where, of course, it requires a little bit of experience and you have to know what you're looking for. But I think that this is a place where a lot of bands or guitarists are actually missing out that they're so focused on humbucker sound and it's always the bridge where I would, you know, let's do the verse on the neck pickup and you know, I love this. You know, experimenting with the small tone changes that can be in a guitar and yeah. So yeah, I do that a lot and I do a lot of you know when, when the chorus hits, there'll be just big chords on a telecaster or whatever with a P90, or you know stuff like that.
Speaker 1:That's, that's amazing, yeah clarity and the attack is awesome. And yeah, totally cool. Now, other than everything we've been talking about on this, on this episode, is there any pieces of advice that you would give to any DIY band, like something we've missed, but that is absolutely crucial for you, or anything you? You always tell bands because it just have to. You feel like it's the most important thing.
Speaker 3:Yeah well, there are so many things. I mean one thing that that I feel like has been a little, or can be a little, weird at times, even though you kind of try to teach the bands or the producers of the bands you know, file delivery. It's also a thing I guess you've also. I don't know if you've had a whole episode about that, but that that's an episode in itself. Three weeks ago, I think we did that Right, cool, yeah, okay, but yeah, but that that that's maybe something that can really destroy things, you know when, when, of course, not just naming tracks and all this, you know, just just having like making sense of a session or just you know naming tracks the right way, organization, just basically, but but just the delivery, if some.
Speaker 3:So I'm often telling bands please, you know, make sure that you deliver it this way, because this is the way that works for me and my assistant, and they're like nah, no, we'll just deliver it on something weird like some Russian site where you can pick it up and press download 50 times, and and I'm like no yeah, or or or Google Drive like oh my God, google Drive with permissions not enabled, or stuff like that.
Speaker 3:Oh, yes, and I I think that's that's also a tough thing, because I feel like, well, it was in my. You know, I sent out a PDF to to bands that I work with and I'm like it's in there and didn't you read it and and maybe they did, but they're like, but I like this better. Yeah, you know. So you're like, okay, how okay, how do we do this? And sometimes I'm like, okay, I sit there and wait for Google Drive to sip one stupid file or it's so.
Speaker 3:And even worse is that. The thing is that sometimes you know when, when I mean, things are really really fast at my place here I'm it, it everything goes so fast that if I I might miss something, you know, sometimes it's like, oh, by the way, was you know you kind of you mix? And you're like, oh, by the way, was there a solo for this sent by this other guy who waited? How was it? And that's oh my God. And then you start looking and you look through mails and you're like, no, that was not on a mail, was that in messenger? And you know, oh my God, and they didn't put it into Dropbox, so it's not there. And these things, this is and this is just where I feel like bands are just wasting their money. Or you know, my time, if I spend, you know I sometimes I can. You know, if I have 15 minutes, I can. I can maybe make a perfect drum sound in 15 minutes. No, I'm not saying that.
Speaker 1:But you know, I don't mean.
Speaker 3:And if I spend 15 minutes on looking for a file how it's such a waste of time, but, but that's, that's something that I'm not saying. It's all bands, but there are a lot of bands who refuse to. It's like, and it's sometimes like I'm telling them okay, so can we please use Dropbox? Because because that works really well for me and my assistant. It's set up in a way that it's just perfect for us and they're like but but I, but I don't have the. You know, I don't have the money for it. Or yeah, and I'm like but you're paying me a lot of money to mix this and out of that budget, couldn't you? I mean, I can't even believe you didn't. Why didn't you sign up for just for a short period of time to have the full Dropbox, or whatever? It's just like sometimes, where priorities are just out the window, they don't. They're like no, it's fine, I can just yeah, yeah, put it into Messenger and you can just download it from Messenger.
Speaker 1:I'm like you know shit. It's hard because, on the one hand, we want to remove the friction as much as possible when we work with clients and we want to make it smooth and easy for them, of course, but on the other hand, as you said, it's such a waste of time if we have to do all these things that we shouldn't be doing. We should focus on the art instead. So, yeah, it's hard sometimes, but at the same time, it's not because, as you said, it's easy to sign up for some service like that or to just follow your guidelines. I'm sure you even. I'm sure there's plenty of like handholding involved, where people just need to follow what you tell them and then they'll be fine.
Speaker 3:Actually, yes, it's not that hard and but of course, I see that people have their habits of working with files and they kind of continue with that If it's a habit they have within the band with their file sharing system or they have. Oh, yeah, we always use Google Drive, which is fine, but if I ask for please do not or please use this, they should know that this is actually pretty important. It's just not something I'm saying because I'm well, I like this, but yeah, that can be a struggle at times and it's even with bigger clients that it can be a problem. It's everyone.
Speaker 2:I don't know if that's the way it is. There's other audio engineers even. Oh yeah, it's everyone.
Speaker 3:But yeah, then again it's of course. Shit happens, and you saw me fumbling with the Bluetooth device in the beginning, so it can happen for anyone. And yeah, it's embarrassing, but no, as long as people actually, or bands, try to pay attention to what the mixer says or I know there's a lot of. I mean, I've seen papers sometimes when I've send out stuff that I produce for other mixes, where I'm like, oh, this is a 10 page PDF. This is crazy, but please read it, it's important information and there's no reason.
Speaker 3:If you wanna start on the right path with this mixer that you've hired, then please follow the instructions. It can't be that hard.
Speaker 1:And there's a reason for it. People need to understand what you just said, that it's not because you wanna torture them with your instructions.
Speaker 1:But they are actually getting more for their budget, for their money, because you have to spend less time on all these things and you can focus more. It's better for the end result and it's just yeah. It's just yeah. They just get more for their money and it's really worth paying attention to that and doing that, and it's not just because you want it that way and there's no benefit in it for them. There is actually.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and it's like, yeah, I could have delivered a mix to you today, but I didn't, because I spent like one hour looking for the files and then I had to download it from media fire or yeah.
Speaker 2:And so yeah, it's wonderful. Good advice, thank you. I've got a golden rule that I've been putting in that nobody does, and it's just, if you're sending me something to mix, you have to export the files and then re-import them into a blank session and your song should be there, right? Nobody ever does it. No, no. It's like you didn't do this because it doesn't work. When I bring it in, I can tell that you know everything's out of time. Yeah, yeah, it's such a classic way.
Speaker 3:You get a session file and of course I know when everything's stressed and maybe you work till three in the morning on the deadline of the mix and you, oh you, panicked and you just sent your session and I you know. Then the whole drum kit is missing and I can tell from the you know when I follow the pad. Oh, it's on your desktop at home.
Speaker 2:It's not here, you know.
Speaker 3:But it works here and I'm like yes, I know, but you know, yeah, that's why sending sessions is most often not the best way to do it.
Speaker 1:anyways, no.
Speaker 3:And I no, I try not to receive sessions even though people are in the same door as I am. I'm like, please, well, sometimes we can just if I have the time for people to send a test session. We can try it, you know, and see if it works.
Speaker 1:But yeah, more often than not it's like don't send me a session, just send me the yeah, the WAV files and yeah, that's one thing people see a lot when they follow these big A-list mixers and they watch their tutorials, where they always talk about like they open the client session and they have to have all the same plugins, because the plugins are in the session and they have all these things the producer did and some of them they keep and some of them they replace and it seems like that is the way to work. But that's again only because these people work with other like really great producers and like they're. Maybe that's the way they do it, but it's not applicable to most DIY scenarios, like it's not gonna happen most of the time.
Speaker 3:You're totally right, and this is a for me, most of the time it's a red flag if people are like, oh, I'm just gonna send you the session because it's got a lot of cool plugins so you can just start there, and I'm like it's just nightmare. Oh God, no, I can't. Well, I need my way of doing it.
Speaker 3:And they're. Actually you're not paying me to work on in your session. It's not making any sense, so for sure. I mean, if there's something in there that they like, they can always just print the track and just process it and with their little plugin on it and say, this is what I got, maybe you can use it, maybe you can, we'll see. But yeah, so of course, it's just the basic rule of please read what it actually says in the information PDF that I sent, or the mixer sent to you, and even though it can't be long it's sometimes, but it's such an important thing, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:All right, cool, I want. One thing I want to say before we wrap this up is that I don't want this episode to come across as like totally negative or complaining all the time about people about bands.
Speaker 1:No, I think it doesn't, but I just want to say that we don't. We really love working with like bands who record themselves. Of course, and it's only we're saying these things because we're so passionate about making it the best it can be and turning it to the best it can be, and that's why we want to save you from making these mistakes and we are explaining all these pitfalls to you. So don't take it as like negativity or complaining from our end. It's just we can do such a better job and we can serve you and your songs better if you follow these things that Jacob and us have to try to describe in this episode. So absolutely.
Speaker 3:Exactly. I mean, we choose, or at least I can speak for myself. I just want to help. It can come across a little when I'm like why would you even you?
Speaker 3:know, but it's actually not. It is because I so want to get into the mixing part, the where I am creative. I don't want to fumble about with all kinds of you know on tune things, and of course this happens like we've talked about it, but it's just because, yeah, I'm so ready to work on this and make this the best it can be. And if the obstacles are just, you know, if they're just heaps of them because they didn't, you know, read a PDF that I sent, then it's just ah, that's just too bad. So, yeah, no, no, it's not that we're just bashing everyone doing, you know, diy recordings. Not at all.
Speaker 3:I mean it's also maybe it's well, let's say, every time I get a DIY session there's maybe just one or two problems, it's not like it's 50. Very rarely it's like nothing can be used. I mean you probably also know that. So it's maybe this one little thing, and sometimes it's even like you can just send a mail to them and go like, is it easy for you to change this little thing? And they'll sometimes be for sure, yeah, then do it, because it's gonna make everything so much better. And yeah, so it's actually. I mean we are here to help. Definitely. We're not here to bash people and make them sell their laptops and their interface.
Speaker 1:And the guitars because they're out of tune.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no more guitar music. Maybe that, if they get an avatune instead.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it makes sense, yeah. All right Well thank you again for taking the time, jacob. This was a really insightful, helpful episode, I think, malcolm, you wanna add anything.
Speaker 2:No, just to break it up. Thank you for taking the time. I have no idea how late it is over there.
Speaker 3:I'm only half past five, it's fine, yeah, yeah, and what time is it at your place?
Speaker 2:It is now 8.35 am for me over in.
Speaker 3:Canada here. Okay, yeah, so I'm not bad, we're all doing good. Then, yeah, yeah, perfect, yeah, yeah, it's all good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you so much for taking the time coming on. Yeah, big fan of your work, of course, as well. So I think our listeners are gonna get a lot out of this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and, by the way, you did a cool interview with Malcolm in his other podcast, your Band Socks at Business. So, people, you wanna check that out as well, because I've listened to it and it's awesome. It's so much valuable information in there for most of you, I think. So, yeah, go to yourbandsocksatbusinesscom and look for the episode with Jacob. You're gonna enjoy it a lot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we talked a lot about the relationship between a producer and the band and interband relationships and just keeping people happy and creative process. So if that sounds good to you, go check that out.
Speaker 1:Cool. All right, thank you, Jacob. Awesome, it's been a blast Welcome, and where can? Where should we send people to If they wanna check out your work? Where can people find you the easiest way?
Speaker 3:I have a fine homepage, which is wwwjacobhanssoncom, and I have an Instagram account as well, which is just Hansson, underscore Jacob. All in small letters, and that's probably the best way. And yeah, so hit me up if there's, if you have any questions or if you wanna work with me. I'm here waiting, yeah.
Speaker 1:Do that people? I'm gonna put that in the show notes. If you go to thesurfrecordingbandcom slash 74, this will be the show notes for this episode. There you'll find all these links. And, yeah, check out Jacob's work. It's phenomenal. And if you're into metal, you'll probably know a lot of what he's done. And, yeah, go check it out, hit him up. You're not gonna regret it, definitely.
Speaker 2:Hopefully not. No, not at all.
Speaker 1:All right, thank you, jacob, have a great day, you're welcome. So welcome.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you too. Bye, we'll see you next time. We'll see you next time.